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Old 18-11-2014, 03:16   #16
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Re: Am I Crazy?

Re;synthetic teak


www.esthec.com


http://www.esthec.nl/en/design/who-used-it.html


Esthec comes pretty close.


regards,


JJ
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Old 18-11-2014, 04:12   #17
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Re: Am I Crazy?

Julie,
I have been a professional woodworker... with a big shop and serious equipmen. I've owed my boat since it was new in 85 and did many joinery projects including a teak cockpit. My closest friend has an Omega of a similar age with teak decks and they require a lot of maintenance. He does little to none and so they are degrading but still are serviceable.

New well maintained teak decks are lovely to look at and great in wet weather. Too hot and actually pretty heavy as well.. and not great for the tropics... which is where you are apparently headed.

If the decks are in bad condition, and not screwed down, removal may not be as challenging as it may seem. You can replace with treadmaster or similar... probably doing this yourself. Of course you don't get the pleasure of working with wood. And of course teak is a nasty wood to work with.. the dust is toxic and I usually get sick after doing a teak project.

If you like the accommodation plan of the Oyster and she sail well and the rest of the systems are in good condition, my advice is to remove the teak and put down treadmaster or similar... maybe having just a teak cockpit. Spending $60k seems insane... Before and After...
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Old 18-11-2014, 05:28   #18
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Re: Am I Crazy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julie Mor View Post

Yesterday we looked at a 2002 Sabre 452 that looked like it just came off the production line. It was almost as nice as the 2013 Sabre 456 we saw at the boat show">Annapolis Boat Show. Pretty much flawless. The 452 was in Washington state until recently when the owner shipped it to south Florida. My SO fell in love with it. As weird as this may seem, it was too perfect for me.

I can't help thinking that for the price of that boat, we could buy the Oyster and probably replace the deck and repaint the hull and still have some change left over. The Oyster is six years older but after replacing the deck and painting the hull, she'd be near perfect and a better liveaboard and long term cruiser. Though my SO complained about the headroom.

I'm a woodworker because I love the look of real wood and get great pleasure creating things out of wood. Part of me thinks if I can build guitars from scratch I should be able to do teak decks. But I have to admit, outside of making the planks, I really don't know what else is involved or if it's at all a reasonable project for one person to tackle and on such a big boat.

I'm thinking we'll be in Florida for at least a couple of years before we do any serious cruising. Even if the deck project took me a year, I'd be fine with that. I just don't know if the work can be done in small sections. Anyway, that's where I was originally going when I saw the boat. After some thought, my biggest concern was all the other things involved after I made the deck planks. I'd want it to look factory installed.

But if we decided to replace the teak with non-skid, I'd hire someone to do it. I'd just hate to lose that beauty.

skipmac, you're pretty much of the same mindset I am. And the more I think about it, the more I think synthetic teak would devalue the boat.

The broker said patch the bad spots but I can't see that working. You'd have to lay in planks half the original thickness.
Now that we have all the facts, here's my 02...

Replacing the deck with a new teak deck is reedeckyouluss ... The only benefit of the wood deck is ...................... Looks.... I have a teak deck, it's in fairly great shape, and it's a PITA... and HOTTT!!!

Fixing individual boards is out... You're a wood lover and highly probable perfectionist... It's going to look like crap... To You...
(address available via PM for handmade guitar donations)

Synthetic... is well.... synthetic....

You can make the boat spectacular looking with topside paint and antiskid... A few thousand in materials and a whole lotta crappy work...
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Old 18-11-2014, 05:29   #19
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Re: Am I Crazy?

My impression is the biggest problem with teak decks is when they are applied over a cored deck with screws, resulting in water penetration into the core. Then the deck needs to be recored along with the expense of the teak.

I could be wrong, but I remember reading on this forum that Oysters don't have cored decks, they are solid fiberglass- one of the reasons that people put great faith in them. Which means there won't be any structural problems under the teak.

That being said, I bought a 24 foot powerboat in 1990 with teak trim. Ever since that experience I have removed every piece of exterior teak from every boat I have owned- I couldn't enjoy looking at the teak because it would make me think about when I would have to work on it again. Cleaning and oiling teak decks is about as much fun as fixing a blocked up head. A teak deck will eventually break most people's will, unless they have deep enough pockets to have someone else maintain them, a "floating annuity" for the boat yard.

The deck problem should mandate a huge discount on the boat, at least equal to the cost of replacing it as there just aren't very many people that can afford a costly Oyster that want a tedious DIY job that interferes with using the boat right from the onset. When you eventually want to sell, the prospective buyer will beat you down with something like "it isn't really a genuine Oyster without teak decks." Unless the boat is priced correctly (including allowances for all the other things you aren't aware of, if the decks look like crap there is probably lots of other deferred maintenance) walk away from this emotional decision.

Spreading an epoxy skim then painting over the existing fiberglass under the teak won't be that hard, time consuming or expensive. Another coat of paint and it looks new again. You can add teak accents if you want to improve the aesthetics.
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Old 18-11-2014, 05:51   #20
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Re: Am I Crazy?

after removal and substrate preparation,
non-slip deck paint, for ex. griptex in awlgrip paint
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Old 18-11-2014, 09:27   #21
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Re: Am I Crazy?

Thank you for all the helpful replies. As I anticipated, most seem to agree teak decks are gorgeous but maintenance and the eventual replacement make them impractical for all but those with very deep pockets. I guess I needed to hear it again and somehow need to find the will to ignore the Sirens calling me.

If we bought this boat, I'm expecting it to be the last boat I'll ever own. If I wasn't concerned about leaving something behind for my loved ones, I'd probably yield to the temptation. But that's not the case.

I'm going to do some research on replacing the teak with non-skid. However that turns out, and deciding if a comfy world cruiser is the better choice over a faster boat, will help steer me in the right direction.
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Old 18-11-2014, 09:55   #22
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Re: Am I Crazy?

Julie, have you considered that this could just be a bigger dose of "I'm buying a project boat so I can save $$" syndrome?

Except for a handful of skippers I have "met" personally and on the internet in the past 20 years none have come close to either making it happen or having any fun.

We bought a "perfect" boat in 1998, it was 12 years old and looked like it had just come from the 1986 showroom. In many cases, actually better, with upgraded gear. Compared to even the "nicer" boats we saw (and we looked ONLY for this particular boat) during the entire year we looked, we saw some real dogs.

Even so, there was still lots of work to do to take a marina hopper and make her electrical system work for anchoring out.

Good luck.
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Old 18-11-2014, 10:11   #23
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Re: Am I Crazy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julie Mor View Post
I'm going to do some research on replacing the teak with non-skid.

And that is a whole nuther can of worms. Been reading up on this a bit and it's like asking what's the best anchor (if you don't understand that little joke do a quick search on this forum for the dozens of previous anchor threads).

There are paint on non skid, stick on non skid, various stuff to add to regular paint non skid and maybe a few more types. Within each category there are numerous brands. All of the above have their ardent fans and critics.

When you find the perfect solution be sure and let me know so I can add that to my list.
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Old 18-11-2014, 10:28   #24
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Re: Am I Crazy?

Stu, sure, there's the element of "saving" in tackling the job myself but the more I looked into this, the more unrealistic DIY seemed. And that $60K figure was thrown out there based on what I've read. It could be more... or less. But I really am trying to make myself be practical. If I erase the memories of the boat, I might succeed.

As for the guitar, which one should I send to you?


skipmac, that whole non-skid thing is a mystery to me. The picture in my mind sees a deck looking something like this:

For all I know, that could cost as much as the teak.
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Old 18-11-2014, 11:00   #25
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Re: Am I Crazy?

Quote:
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As for the guitar, which one should I send to you?
Ah, lovely choices. They look so happy together, don't let me tear them apart!

I do (poorly but for fun) acoustic.

That non-skid looks brand new out of the box, and really nice. Trying to do that on a boat that's been out of the factory has been tried for many years, with the same kind of admonitions that skipmac just noted. Many folks have tried to find molds to do it on a previously owned boat. A search on "non-skid deck molds" is where I'd start.

Good luck.
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Old 18-11-2014, 11:04   #26
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Re: Am I Crazy?

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What, no acoustics?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Julie Mor View Post
skipmac, that whole non-skid thing is a mystery to me. The picture in my mind sees a deck looking something like this:

For all I know, that could cost as much as the teak.
Actually this is yet another method. You can get a pattern molded in non skid like this by using sheets with the pattern molded in, coat the deck with the appropriate resin, lay the pattern sheets on top and press the pattern into the resin. Remove sheet et voilà, a patterned deck. Nice results but VERY labor intensive IE expensive. Still probably a lot cheaper than new teak.

That is how my boat was done from the factory but after 30 years it's losing it's non-skidiness so I'm thinking about options.

To elaborate more on the other methods

- Paint on non-skid. Various types and brands. Some involve some variation on a thick paint painted on with a long nap roller that makes a texture kind of like a plastered wall. Others have some kind of an additive that is grippy like a tennis shoe sole.

- Stick on. Buy sheets of stuff with either a gritty or a texture/pattern surface and glue to the deck. Some I think are peal and stick.

- Additives. Use your choice of paint and add stuff to it. Can be anything from beach sand to high tech particles of various types.
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Old 18-11-2014, 11:38   #27
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Re: Am I Crazy?

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Originally Posted by Julie Mor View Post
:

As for the guitar, which one should I send to you?
Forget about them.. .Send me the one with the black pickups. I really like the headstock shape.

I'm also an amateur woodworker. But I'd never do teak decks. (Been thinkin about a guitar project though)
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Old 18-11-2014, 11:44   #28
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Re: Am I Crazy?

Fake teak or plastic decks will absolutely KILL the value of an Oyster. Kind of like replacing worn hardwood flooring in a luxury home with linoleum squares. Here's some pictures of our Oyster 53 with the decks 75% completed by yours truly. Not difficult with some pro woodworking skills using a plunge skill saw, random orbital sander, chisels, patience and around 300 hours of labor out in the sun. What you see is the work prior to final sanding to remove excess caulking. It's a 15 step process done in sections.


The only exception, would be if you can locate and buy the fake teak being used by Lagoon which absolutely looks and feels like teak. But I bet that it probably costs around the same price as teak. It looks like full thickness plastic wood with caulking, something I'd consider in 10-12 years when our decks need replacement... if we still have the boat.
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Old 18-11-2014, 12:32   #29
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Re: Am I Crazy?

Hi, everybody,

I just read this thread, and what I think is that the person who owns the Oyster now, has let it go so far, that whoever buys it should get the "new decks discount." It is old enough that I think further devaluation if it were fixed up after would be only due to added years, not the absence of teak. Partly this is because well done Awl-grip, well-done paint with nonskid sprayed on, or the acrylmeric sportscote, like we used, all are serviceable, attractive deck coatings/coverings, . The experienced buyer will appreciate the fact that their feet stay put when the decks are wet, and no splinters.

No one has mentioned the wear and tear on one's body from taking on a teak deck project, but, honestlly, there's gonna be groveling, and hours of it. I guess one way you could look at it, if Julie can work as fast as Kenomac, is how many guitars could she sell for the 300 hrs. labor? How near to the cost of a teak deak would that bring her?

Our sailing's been mainly in the tropics, and we chose the acrylmeric sportscote for both it's insulating properties and its non-skid. It has the downside of being vulnerable to staining from some kinds of mud, and requires experimentation to get rid of those stains.
But the boat stays cooler below, with it, and that matters to me. YMMV

Good luck with it.

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Old 18-11-2014, 13:14   #30
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Re: Am I Crazy?

When I'm working on my decks, I figure I'm earning around $1000 per day; because that's just around the price I'd be paying someone else to do the same work. Plus, I'd need to watch over the work being done.

$1000 per day, not bad.
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