Aluminum Boat

[Panope]

Nick, Dave, David

Please clarify what sort of protection you feel is necessary for an aluminum boat that has zero A/C and minimal D/C that is normally off.

Panope has been in the water for a total of 19 years. She has never had any A/C equipment. The D/C negative has been isolated from the hull. When no one is aboard (most of the time) the battery switch is off, and when I say "off" I mean everything is off. Zincs have always deteriorated very slowly. Never had any corrosion.

Am I lucky or is my experience typical for a "disconnected" boat?

Thanks,

Steve

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Panope

Nick, Dave, David

Please clarify what sort of protection you feel is necessary for an aluminum boat that has zero A/C and minimal D/C that is normally off.

Panope has been in the water for a total of 19 years. She has never had any A/C equipment. The D/C negative has been isolated from the hull. When no one is aboard (most of the time) the battery switch is off, and when I say "off" I mean everything is off. Zincs have always deteriorated very slowly. Never had any corrosion.

Am I lucky or is my experience typical for a "disconnected" boat?

Thanks,

Steve

An isolation transformer is for a shore power connection only so if you don't have that, you don't need it. But I don't see many boats without shore power connections.... You don't have that? no battery charger etc?

[Panope]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

An isolation transformer is for a shore power connection only so if you don't have that, you don't need it. But I don't see many boats without shore power connections.... You don't have that? no battery charger etc?

Thanks Jedi

That is correct. No Shore power. No Charger. I do not even have an electric bilge pump (I might add a Diaphragm type - so no wires in bilge).

I have recently installed my first ever solar panel. The panels chassis and negative wire are not connected to the hull and I will probably (still on the hard) not leave the panel "on" when away from the boat.

I also have an On/Off battery switch that disconnects the battery Neg. from the engine block. I only turn that switch on when running the engine.

Steve

[s/v Jedi]

That looks good Steve. Get a Brother P-touch label maker and add labels for every switch and fuse. You want anybody to know which is your house battery and which is the starter battery for example. I like it how you followed the good info about the switches instead of those 1-2-both-off versions! Well done

Originally Posted by Panope

Thanks Jedi

That is correct. No Shore power. No Charger. I do not even have an electric bilge pump (I might add a Diaphragm type - so no wires in bilge).

I have recently installed my first ever solar panel. The panels chassis and negative wire are not connected to the hull and I will probably (still on the hard) not leave the panel "on" when away from the boat.

I also have an On/Off battery switch that disconnects the battery Neg. from the engine block. I only turn that switch on when running the engine.

Steve

[Panope]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

That looks good Steve. Get a Brother P-touch label maker and add labels for every switch and fuse. You want anybody to know which is your house battery and which is the starter battery for example. I like it how you followed the good info about the switches instead of those 1-2-both-off versions! Well done

An overlay panel (painted plywood) with holes for the switches is in the works. Will label for sure. But your suggestion to label everything under the overlay is a good one also. It seems so obvious to me (as the builder) what does what. Then again, no one knows what sort of usefulness my own brain will have in 20 years or so.

And yes, I hated the old 1-2-both switch with two identically sized batteries. It was information on the CF that got me thinking of alternatives.

Steve

[surfmachine]

Ahoy Steve.
It has been apparent to me that pressure pumps, both for fresh and salt water were a cause of earth leakage onto the hull, mainly when they were running!
So no more permanently wired pumps of any type!

I never connect to shore power. I have an onboard honda genset that can work through the shore power inlet to charge the batteries through a 40 amp sterling charger. In, fact, when in a marina I never, ever, connect to the dock power!

With 3 solar panels of 170 watts I always have nearly full batteries, the new MPPT solar tracker regulator is a wonder! Also, two wind gennies can be used, but mostly tied off as they are not regulated. With 540 amphour of batteries as well, no need for extra charging or shore power!

Also, never, ever use a mooring! Always drop the anchor and dig it in. Had a "new" one fail on me after 3 days in Ao Charong at Phuket, at 3am!!!! Heard many tales of woe about failed moorings!!!

I have a bright red LED light on the fuse panel, one side connected to the positive 12V bus and the other to the hull. If any leakage, it glows brightly. Funnily enough, I wondered why the PO had a double pole switch on the VHF radio, found out when I installed the LED, it glowed when the VHF is on, the earth braid is exposed somewhere in the mast and allows earth leakage to the hull. But, now that the standard horizon AIS, VHF is wired into the NMEA bus, the double pole switch does not do any good, even when off, and I have disconnected the shield braid from the coax line, until I replace the antenna cable!!

Also, never have the motor permantly earthed!! I have a big, huge double pole relay, handles 200 amps, for the positive and negative 12V feeds to the starter motor and glow plugs. Makes a lot of noise, but only feeds 12V power to the block when glowing the glow plugs and starting the motor with the starter motor!

Alternator also has to be electrically isolated from the block with insulated wiring posts or nylon bushes on the mounts.

Then, no more hull corrosion????

I always leave my yacht on the hardstand when I am away for 4 to 6 months, and leave the solar panels on.

Cheers from Keith.

[s/v Jedi]

Guys,

While not connecting to shore power does prevent any truble with it, remember that we are allowed luxuries like AC power can provide and a shore power connection with correctly installed isolation transformer provides the same level of protection as using a genset. Exactly the same. And it's easy to do.

[David M]

Originally Posted by Panope

Nick, Dave, David

Please clarify what sort of protection you feel is necessary for an aluminum boat that has zero A/C and minimal D/C that is normally off.
Thanks,

Steve

At minimum you want an epoxy coated hull and hull anodes. I have six fish shaped anodes that are welded to the hull. I am in disagreement that an isolation transformer is necessary. (Just get a transformer if it cures an existing electrolysis problem) I use an isolator, which cured an electrolysis problem I was having many years ago. Do not connect any of your AC or DC system to the hull. I have 22 years of first hand experience with an aluminum hull.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by David M

I am in disagreement that an isolation transformer is necessary. (Just get a transformer if it cures an existing electrolysis problem) I use an isolator.

Wow! I am very curious what new discoveries you have done that make isolation transformers are necessary for shore power installations aboard aluminium vessels.

Sure, if your epoxy coating is perfect and your wiring and every electrical device and the shore power outlet perfect too then you might be okay without it. But when you cruise around the world (and this is a cruisers forum) then you'll find conditions not so perfect and you will need it. Unless you take the damage for granted of-course.

[David M]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Wow! I am very curious what new discoveries you have done that make isolation transformers are necessary for shore power installations aboard aluminium vessels.

Did you mean unnecessary?

[Panope]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Guys,

While not connecting to shore power does prevent any truble with it, remember that we are allowed luxuries like AC power can provide and a shore power connection with correctly installed isolation transformer provides the same level of protection as using a genset. Exactly the same. And it's easy to do.

As a local waters cruiser, (I live in a house) my needs are very minimal.

I agree that an aluminum boat can be safely set up with all of the electrical conveniences and luxuries that Nick so thoroughly enjoys on Jedi. However, my "day job" as me dealing with a lot of complicated equipment and I want to keep my hobbies and vacations on the boat a simple as possible. Activities like rowing the dingy to get some ice are just part of the fun for me.

Steve

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by David M

Did you mean unnecessary?

Yes, I'm flabbergasted about how I got to post that... I killed the auto-correct or so I thought...

[surfmachine]

Ahoy Jedi.
Would the Sterling, 40 amp charger, have an isolating transformer in it? I am not on my boat at present.
Cheers from Keith.
ProDigital
http://www.sterling-power.com/images...ro-digital.jpg

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[s/v Jedi]

No. I vaguely remember something about a charger or so that was said to isolate but when I checked it didn't.

Google for a Victron Isolation Transformer to get an idea. They have a 3.6kW version which does well for boats with max. 16A/230V or 30A/120V.