Alberg 30 vs. Triton vs. Ocean Voyager 26vs???

[barnakiel]

You will find countless boats in the 26-30 range that are inexpensive and seaworthy (seaworthy - FOR THE SIZE).

If the boat is to be used as a sailing toy only, then buy the one that pleases your likes and dislikes.

If the boat is to become a more or less temporary home for you then look for one that will give you max comforts and space (also - storage space) at minimum loss of safety and performance. You may be lucky and find one of two makes that are comfortable and safe and fast.

Of the three boats you mentioned I like the VO best as it seems to offer best protection in the cockpit and comes with split rig. I do not like its external chainplates. If the boat has lead ballast then I would be willing to pay what is asked on the web for a clean, sound one - if she came with good sails and usable engine.

Our own boat is very similar except we have another 3 ft of waterline and much better performing underbody shape (my guess from the displacement of the VO). But the VO does have the SA to keep her going too.

b.

[atmarine]

Hi, orinigal poster here,
thanks for the good feedback thus far. A bit more background, there will be 2 onboard, and cruising the east coast, America. We want something that can cross oceans. I have read all the Pardey books, etc and am in full agreement with their style. I prefer a project boat versus one that is ready to cruise for a number of reasons. I am very picky, and want things, just so. Being in the biusness, and a graduate of the Landing School of Boatbulding in Maine, I have in my minds eye a snapshot of what we want. Starting out with a project boat, or hull is the way for us to go. That is what we did with our Flicka, stripping her to just the hull and bulkheads, then rebuilding her from there. Thanks for teh suggestions on the other boats, but I havent reallly narrowed it down at this point. Any more ideas, throw them out there! Thanks

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I took the fixer upper approach with a $2,000.00 Bristol 27 getting ideas from James Baldwin at atomvoyages. I did make a $1,300 mistake though by buying a replacement old diesel. I forgot that I didn't like smelly, leaky inefficient old engines. I have since replaced that old diesel with a 2012 5hp 4 stroke Mercury outboard.

Nice looking boat

If I was on a strict budget I would go for a boat that could also be powered by an outboard - even if engine currently working. Not ideal for long passages, but isn't that what the sails are for?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Nice looking boat

If I was on a strict budget I would go for a boat that could also be powered by an outboard - even if engine currently working. Not ideal for long passages, but isn't that what the sails are for?

Thanks! It's not so much that I'm on a strict budget as it is that I was trying to find out if I really like these old slow boats. I raced catamarans for years on the gulf coast and have never had a sailboat with an engine much less a place to sleep and cook. (actually I have slept on my cat's trampoline before on the yearly 100 mile Round the Island race down there)

I used to hang out with the full keel crowd at the dock next to where I parked my catamarans (a Nacra 6.0 and Nacra F17 which is a single hander with a spinnaker) This group of sailors taught me all about Bristols, Tayanas, Cape Dorys, Albergs and so on. I listened to this talk for about 14 years. I was just worried about going from cruising at 15 knots or so down to 4 knots. (but) I have found that I do like these old big slow boats.

Now the question I am trying to answer is do I continue working on this Bristol 27 or maybe sell and buy something a bit different. There is a 2001 Catalina 310 at a dock near me that is pretty nice but it draws like 5'9". My boat is still at a marina on the Eastern Shore (of VA) where you can only come and go within an hour or so of high tide. That's been fun! I'll be moving it over here in the Spring)

Attached are pictures showing the boat when I found it. It had been on the hard for 5 years.

Tom

[tartansail]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Thanks! It's not so much that I'm on a strict budget as it is that I was trying to find out if I really like these old slow boats. I raced catamarans for years on the gulf coast and have never had a sailboat with an engine much less a place to sleep and cook. (actually I have slept on my cat's trampoline before on the yearly 100 mile Round the Island race down there)

You've got a great boat. I hear your progression. I had been almost exclusively windsurfing for the fifteen years before I met my wife who, conveniently, came with a Bristol 27. I loved the transition (old bones did, too. ) We sailed the Bristol all over New England before deciding we wanted more space and a diesel and getting our Tartan 34.

You made a good decision to lose those davits. With an outboard, you'll get a fair amount of stern squat under power. I can't imagine how it would be with a dinghy hanging off the end.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Now the question I am trying to answer is do I continue working on this Bristol 27 or maybe sell and buy something a bit different. There is a 2001 Catalina 310 at a dock near me that is pretty nice but it draws like 5'9".

The old "a few more feet would be nice" temptation

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

The old "a few more feet would be nice" temptation

Yes, and since there was an earlier post that mentioned the Tartan 34, I made the mistake of looking at a couple on the YachtWorld.com website. There are several nice ones, and they are quite a bit faster than that Catalina 310 I was looking at (and cheaper for the 80's models) Plus they have beautiful teak interiors............and only draw 4'6" in some cases!

[tartansail]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Yes, and since there was an earlier post that mentioned the Tartan 34, I made the mistake of looking at a couple on the YachtWorld.com website. There are several nice ones, and they are quite a bit faster than that Catalina 310 I was looking at (and cheaper for the 80's models) Plus they have beautiful teak interiors............and only draw 4'6" in some cases!

Oh, my. What have I wrought. I didn't intend to send you on a shopping spree. The Tartan 34 was a great next boat for us after the Bristol 27. The T34c only draws 4 feet with the board up which is one of the reasons it is so popular where the water is thin. As much as I love our current boat, I probably wouldn't have made the jump if it hadn't been for some of the admiral's requirements if we were to spend extended time aboard.

If you start looking seriously at T34's, post or PM and I can tell you some of the things to look for. Despite the prices that you're seeing on Yachtworld, I expect you could get a pretty decent boat for low to mid-teens given the current market.

[callmecrazy]

While you're shopping, you might want to consider a Tartan 30

Also, I've read somewhere on the Bristol owners site that some people are putting a few hundred lbs of lead under the v-berth to compensate for the outboard+crew in the stern. They say it works well...

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Yes, and since there was an earlier post that mentioned the Tartan 34, I made the mistake of looking at a couple on the YachtWorld.com website. There are several nice ones, and they are quite a bit faster than that Catalina 310 I was looking at (and cheaper for the 80's models) Plus they have beautiful teak interiors............and only draw 4'6" in some cases!

Perusing a list of PHRF ratings I have indicates that while several models of the Tartan 34 are faster than the Catalina 310, not all are. Which model was especially attracting your fancy?

[barnakiel]

Then again the Tartan is a nearly 35' LOA boat with only 25' LWL (!!!!!!). 10' (25% of the boat) is "wasted".

There are boats which are below 32' LOA while they have over 28' LWL.

This will bear on the amt of internal volume (living space) as well as on speed and comfort in open waters.

I think when one goes for a small boat then looking for max LWL/LOA makes some sense.

What do you think?

b.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Perusing a list of PHRF ratings I have indicates that while several models of the Tartan 34 are faster than the Catalina 310, not all are. Which model was especially attracting your fancy?

The Tartan 34 II ...............132-135 phrf

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Then again the Tartan is a nearly 35' LOA boat with only 25' LWL (!!!!!!). 10' (25% of the boat) is "wasted".

There are boats which are below 32' LOA while they have over 28' LWL.

This will bear on the amt of internal volume (living space) as well as on speed and comfort in open waters.

I think when one goes for a small boat then looking for max LWL/LOA makes some sense.

What do you think?

b.

Yes, but compared to my Bristol 27 that Tartan 34 II is a mansion.........

[callmecrazy]

The tartan 34(C) is a mansion even compared to an Alberg 30 or the other boats listed.

But I think you guys are talking about the Tartan 3400, right? That's probably a better boat to compare with the Catalina 310, but they are still very different boats, and the 3400 is a pretty big step up in size from the 310, no matter what the LWL... (note: I've sailed on a 309 and T34C, but not these)

My T30 has almost the same LWL and beam as the T34C, but the T34 is HUGE compared my T30. I sailed on one a few weekends ago, its a great boat, but it's nowhere near as fast as the T30 in terms of agility, acceleration, lighter winds, and pointing ability.

The biggest problem with 'the numbers' is that Hull and keel design can make dramatic differences even when the boats have exactly the same LWL,LOA and displacement.

PHRF can you give an approximation of what type of performance to expect compared to similar boats, but those numbers aren't going to mean a whole lot when you add 2000lbs (or more) worth of personal items and cruising gear. And you must be comparing to Similar boats, not apples to oranges...

The Triton and smaller bristols are comparable, but the Alberg 30 will beat them both in all areas, including both comfort and sailing ability (IMO). But you need to be comparing boats of similar sizes.. How does the Alberg 30 stack up against the T30? or How does the Catalina 310 stack up to the Tartan 3100? Or 3400 to Catalina 34, etc..

Then go look at them all You could change your mind a bout aboat the moment you step aboard it. Or the first time you sail it....

[roverhi]

The older boats have longer overhangs. My 35' pearson has a 25' waterline, for example. The additional space is not wasted, however. The lazarette is big enough for me to crawl into and take a nap and the forepeak is able to stow 130' of chain and 150' of line on one rode and 300' of line and short chain on another rode. The water line length is deceiving as far as calculated hull speed. Once you heel these boats, even a few degrees, the water line increases and maximum speed potential increases. I've had my boat clocking over 7 knots in flat water with ideal winds and averaged almost calculated hull speed all the way to Hawaii.

Just because the older boats have relatively short waterlines compared to overall length, doesn't mean they are slow or there is wasted space. They have another advantage, they are not butt ugly like the current crop of fat assed, plumb bowed, long waterline designs. It's not to say that you want to load all your heavy items in the ends, however. Weight in the ends does affect windward performance in a seaway. We try and load the ends with mostly lighter weight gear which their seems to be no shortage of.

If you are thinking of long ocean passages, a catalina may not be the best boat for the real world. Catalina makes a nice boat but the older Pearson/Bristol/Tartan/Alberg boats are probably way stronger, have an easier motion, a better interior for sea work, and way way way cheaper. I know BeneHunAlinas have gone all over the world but so have 8' rowboats. There are ocean passages and there are ocean passages.

As far as slow/fast, the PHRF ratings are based on inshore performance in mostly light air conditions on courses with heavy windward components. Otherwise, they put a premium on pointing ability and light winds that aren't the norm out in the real cruising world. We routinely embarassed supposedly faster, better sailing boats with our Wetsnail and averaged 118nm a day over more that 10,000 miles of almost exclusively engineless cruising. Have had similar good performance with my Pearson 35, 15.5 days SF to Hilo on an atypical light trade wind passage. PHRF ratings will give you an idea, though not iron clad, of relative speed in coastal cruising. It's virtually worthless in the offshore world, however. The typical cruising routes are reaches to runs and the winds tend to blow Force 3-5 with a high degree of reliability.