Alberg 30 vs. Triton vs. Ocean Voyager 26vs???

[mhoughton439]

I'm with 318. A sailboat was always a dream of mine that didn't fit with my income. I now have two Tritons that were given to me. I know a "free" boat never is but it does allow someone to gradually bring the boat up to their standards without a large initial cash outlay.

One of my Tritons hit the water in the Chesapeake Bay in July. Although I don't think she's ready for blue water use, she certainly does well for day sails and weekends on the bay. None of this would have been possible had I waited until I saved enough money to get something larger and newer.

That said, I love my Tritons.

Not to get into a gun discussion but...As a law enforcement firearms instructor I am frequently asked what gun is the best. My students are usually surprised to find that the "best" has nothing to do with brand or caliber but is the one that you happen to have on you when you need it. Sailboats are much the same thing. Sometimes you can save and save until you get the perfect sailboat. Sometimes you can take what's available and go sailing while adapting it to your needs.

Both boats are wonderful and are extremely capable. The Triton is a little smaller but, for sailing, you cannot go wrong. Best of luck to you.

[roverhi]

There is no such thing as a perfectly equipped boat. Some may come close in concept but not for you. Just because a boat has a lot of equipment doesn't mean it works or that it will be what you want. Be very careful about paying for equipment on "well' equipped boat as the stuff may just end up on Ebay when you actually get into the boat. Rigging is cheap and easy to replace, mast and sails are not. The engine is a big question mark that can cost 10s of boat units to set right. Varnish and gel coat are things that can be done at your leisure or not at all. Repairing core water damage is a whole 'nother story. Self steering vanes are a necessity to go cruising and a big plus if already on the boat. Setting the boat up for short handed sailing can get expensive. Roller furling and recutting sails to work with it is a major cost factor. Running reefing lines back to the cockpit is costly in equipment. Canvas is a big deal on a cruising boat. Weather cloths, awnings, dodger, bimini, etc are big expense items that will greatly increase your enjoyment of cruising if included and set up so they work and a big expense if you have to add them. Is there a windlass, chain anchor rode, and suitably sized anchor(s)??

So it's Yin and Yang thing when it comes to buying a very cheap boat and setting it up the way you want and buying a 'ready to go' boat. Best to make up a list of what you can't get by without, what would be a nice to have and what are just toys for your entertainment. Take that list with your and check off what's on the list for every boat that you look at.

Others have mentioned all the other boats that are out there in your size and presumably, price range. I'd add the Pearson Coaster and Vanguard to the list as they are well built, designed by Alberg IIRC, and available at good prices. FWIW, there's a Pearson 35 Yawl with new engine that is on the market for around $10,000. Can't remember whether I saw it on the site but a search should turn it up. Believe it was this week that I saw it. It appears to be an excellent buy and just an example of good deals that may be out there.

[atmarine]

Thanks everyone for their input here. Triton 318 has hit it on the head with his post. (very nice work also. Saw it detailed on classic plastic!)We are of the same mind on outfitting here. Simple and built yourself. It can be built up to my standards (overbuilt probably) and exactly how we want it. Being in the marine business, I see a lot of simply brilliant ideas of boats I am on, and want to incorporate this on the new boat / build. You can see the Flicka that we just sold, equipped for cruising here: Flickas For Sale

Any comments on storage on the Triton / Alberg 30 when loaded with water and stores for cruising? How much does peformance suffer? When pointing upwind? I have check the Atom site regularly for years, great indeed. I used many of Baldwin's ideas for the modifications on Scout (Flicka 20) and was very pleased. Good inout here from everyone. Thanks!

[Cheechako]

You're in luck! So many choices in that size range. keep in mind that your Flicka had a very long waterline for a 20 ft boat. Some of those older boats have very short waterlines. For instance, I sailed a lot with friends who had a Falmouth 22, We had our Rawson 30 (23 ft waterline) We were nearly always boat for boat equal in speed from one anchorage to another. So if you want to improve speed... pay attention to waterline length, not OAL. That will probably lead you to a newer design than older....

[Triton318]

Originally Posted by atmarine

Any comments on storage on the Triton / Alberg 30 when loaded with water and stores for cruising? How much does peformance suffer? When pointing upwind?

I believe the Triton has enough storage space for two for long passages. It doesn't point as high as some boats. I'm sure performance will suffer a bit when fully loaded for long passages. For me personally, I don't really care. When I leave in June 2012, I will not be on any time tables. If it takes 30 days instead of 20, or even 15, I could care less. I like being at sea anyway. For others, it may be important to make faster passages and have the ability to point higher.

[otherthan]

at first I started looking for an alberg30...cauldent find one at the price I was willing to pay (under $2000) I did find a triton but the cored deck was a no deal for me...id rather stic to solid glass decks as they been built befor resine became the new gold and boatbuilders started coaring decks to save $$$...so my list options narowed to a few canadian built boats, they all have standing headroom and somewhat comfortable ride...oh yes I did find all for less then $2000 but optained only 2 (hinterhoeller28, continental25) my other choices the northern25, grampian26, challenger7.4, c&c redwing...I almost got my hands on a tanzer7.5 at $400 but its a coared deck and the least comfortable of all, yet the owner of cirque du soliel has crossed the atlantic several times in a tanzer7.5... in my opinion all other boat will do better...final note the hinterhoeller28 has more stowrage then an alberg30, the reason why I will keep it.
rgds

[otherthan]

heres a triton...ok not the pearson triton, but still a Phill Rhodes design...the northen 25 is said to be exelent and very strong with standing headroom...this one at $2000 would be a good deal. see it on kijiji

[callmecrazy]

I did not like the Triton... It has a very comfortable V-berth and setee berths, both with TONS of storage. But there is no galley to speak-of, which makes the standing headroom seem a little pointless...

One of the Tritons I looked at had a dodger. To get onto the foredeck from the cockpit, around the dodger, was difficult and dangerous... This one issue alone is what turned me immediately off the triton.
They also need the rig to be upgraded. (very small wire size on a fractional rig, attached to very small knees in the hull).
The good thing about Tritons, is they are REALLY EASY to work on. You can epoxy and paint everything on that boat.... but you could be doing plenty of it.

The Alberg 30 solves all of these issues.

The Cape Dory is the same but more expensive.... It has a few nice features, like all 8 opening ports, and a proper U shaped galley, but at a $10K+ difference in price.

[dofthesea]

Ok DOJ I'll bite haha . After having an International Folkboat " Blue Moon for about 16 months I have quite a few opinions about her.

The pros:

1. A great boat to sail if you like a lot of action. Even more so if you single hand which i do most of the time.
2. Very sea kindly motion. Now I see why so many boats have been designed after the Folkboat. When I upgrade i will more then likely go with a boat modeled after the Folkboat only larger. Maybe in the 30ish range.
3. An IF is the epitome of the KISS rule.
4. She can take a lot of wind feel comfortable.
5 The nice thing about a 26' is when you go to upgrade or purchase anything your purchasing for a 26' and not a 36' which can be twice as much if not more sometimes.
6. I am absolutely grateful that I got great advice from the forum about good decisions on which boat was the best choice for "my" needs.
7. She is the prettiest boat on my dock ......haha well maybe except for Liz's boat.
8. Blue Moon has helped me fulfill one of my lifelong dreams of exploration and adventure on the water and will continue to in the future.
9. Because she is small and costs less money to maintain I get to spend a lot of time sailing and very little time actually working on the boat. Typically I sail 3-4 time a week.


The cons:
1. Ok everyone warns you about how expensive a boat can be, but what they don't tell you how bad it actually is. It's almost like it's a secret because all the existing boaters want newbes to to get involved so they only give you half the facts haha. ny hoot this has nothing to do with Blue Moon I gees she had been 90% refitted when I got her and she still has cost a small fortune.
2. Sometimes the headroom, lack of a head and no Galley is kind of a hindrance.
3. Starting to discover small things that have started to bother me such as I really want a windlass and enough room to get a good electrical system with a self sufficient recharging system.
4. Would be really nice to have an inboard.


When I first purchased Blue Moon I didn't have a lot of experience sailing except for a lot of beer can races in the Bay Area so I can't begin to explain what a great choice an IF boat really was here in Hawaii. I don't even have to reef it until its blowing at least 25. And the number one thing I like is the motion and feel of a Full Keel and 50% ballast provides. An IF is just about the perfect boat to learn on and grow into so I wont have to upgrade for quite some time. Which would be a real if I had to keep upgrading constantly. The conditions in Hawaii can be relatively severe quite often so Blue Moon is a perfect boat for Hawaii. This is also based on the fact that I am more of a cruiser mentality then a racer. Is she perfect? No she aint perfect but then I'm not independently wealthy either. Bottom line is I won't have to upgrade until it's time to do long passages and by then I'll be married so the admiral will have a lot of input so be it.

A few of the things I have done is add a Ticktack system,strip the deck and epoxy paint the decks which was a giant project as I had to strip every piece of hardware off then rebed after , replaced running rigging, new ground tackle,
replaced all woodwork on exterior of deck, and a million other small projects. Would I do it again yes but I am also a builder with 25 years experience in wood working and all aspects of the building trades. I am a firm believer in most situations I think it's better to buy a boat that has had most of the work done to it. In most cases you will pay 200% more for a boat that is not in pretty good shape. Although i intend to purchase a major fixer upper next time as I'll be working under a specific set of parameters.

Sorry if I high jacked the thread. To the OP check out the thread D O J mentions there is some great advice about your exact questions.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by dofthesea

Sorry if I high jacked the thread.

IMO a free thread bump (or 2!) is fair exchange.

Sounds like you are having fun - and that's what it is all about ............as you have identified already, the accounting practices of the typical boat owner make Enron look the model of honesty (and remember not to tell the Newbies ).

But my guess is that the money you have spent on the Folkboat will likely come back on any future project boat (or even a non-project boat!) - simply from first hand understanding of what you are buying (and particularly from what you turn down!)......at least that's what you should tell yourself!...........works for me

[Jack Tar]

Best of both worlds Alberg 29. Although the 29 is one foot shorter that the 30 she has a lot more interior space. Carl Alberg mad his last changes to the Alberg line when he did the 29.

[redcobra]

Originally Posted by atmarine

I know there has been much talk on the forum in recent past about small boat voyaging. We are looking a the above boats for cruising and passagmaking in a simple manner. I realize that there are limitations on size and stuff you can bring aboard, and there are people here that will insist that you need a 40 plus to do it in. I was looking for comments about sailing ability, and livibility on the boats. I would be looking for any of the above in a project boat condition, so the build will be essentially new. We just sold our Flicka 20, and are looking for something a tad bigger and faster. Any comments or suggestions here? Thanks

Tha ALberg 30 is a great boat but quite narrow inside.

[redcobra]

Originally Posted by otherthan

at first I started looking for an alberg30...cauldent find one at the price I was willing to pay (under $2000) I did find a triton but the cored deck was a no deal for me...id rather stic to solid glass decks as they been built befor resine became the new gold and boatbuilders started coaring decks to save $$$...so my list options narowed to a few canadian built boats, they all have standing headroom and somewhat comfortable ride...oh yes I did find all for less then $2000 but optained only 2 (hinterhoeller28, continental25) my other choices the northern25, grampian26, challenger7.4, c&c redwing...I almost got my hands on a tanzer7.5 at $400 but its a coared deck and the least comfortable of all, yet the owner of cirque du soliel has crossed the atlantic several times in a tanzer7.5... in my opinion all other boat will do better...final note the hinterhoeller28 has more stowrage then an alberg30, the reason why I will keep it.
rgds

My 1966 ALberg 30 had solid masonite cored decks. However, I sold her for $16,000 (completely rehabbed).

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by atmarine

I know there has been much talk on the forum in recent past about small boat voyaging. We are looking a the above boats for cruising and passagmaking in a simple manner. I realize that there are limitations on size and stuff you can bring aboard, and there are people here that will insist that you need a 40 plus to do it in. I was looking for comments about sailing ability, and livibility on the boats. I would be looking for any of the above in a project boat condition, so the build will be essentially new. We just sold our Flicka 20, and are looking for something a tad bigger and faster. Any comments or suggestions here? Thanks

You did not say where you wish to go and how many you are aboard.

That would strongly influence my suggestions.

No, you don't need a 40-plus to go voyaging, and in many cases, it's too much boat, or rather too much expense to keep functional. A fit couple with low expectations for cat-swinging and privacy at toilet could take a Contessa 26 or a Westsail 32. The problem is that these boats are slow and the tankage is limited. That can be an issue with trans-Atlantics, for instance, which could take four to six weeks. If you bring a watermaker, you have to bring the means to charge the batteries, and you'll need more batteries than you have room...or means to charge. Bring loads of jerrycans and you have weight on deck and the possibility of losing them to waves or damage.

So everything's a compromise. No news there.

If you island-hop in the Caribbean, bring money. You can have a smaller boat and simply replenish as needed. Ocean crossing's different. You have to budget food and water over time, and then add the "what if the wind stinks?" premium. The beginning of the voyage? Think "I am sick of climbing over these crates of tinned stew" times 10.

I would suggest you read Eric and Susan Hiscock's tales of cruising in the '50s in a 30 footer and then work out from those assumptions. Tania Aebi's "Maiden Voyage" is also good for this, as are the Pardeys' "barebones cruising" books. You shouldn't necessarily work forward from some "ideal boat types", but figure out what kind of voyaging you wish to do, and then work back from that to figure out what size, type and "style" of boat fits that idealization. It might be bigger, it might not. Much depends on the crew's tolerance for the absence of certain amenities! If you can poop in a bucket, the space that a head occupies makes a substantial provisions locker, for instance!

[thomm225]

Just going by the boats named, he's looking for something really cheap like $5,000.00 or less. I'm guessing the reason he doesn't want to wait and save up for a boat that is ready to go is that it is almost impossible to find something like that with so little money. Plus it's kinda fun to "fix up" an old boat. On top of that, you learn a lot about the boat and if something does happen while off shore you may already have a good idea what it is.

I took the fixer upper approach with a $2,000.00 Bristol 27 getting ideas from James Baldwin at atomvoyages. I did make a $1,300 mistake though by buying a replacement old diesel. I forgot that I didn't like smelly, leaky inefficient old engines. I have since replaced that old diesel with a 2012 5hp 4 stroke Mercury outboard.

So far I have about $6,500 in the boat which includes bottom paint and engine replacements. The boat is totally functional.

see picture: I have removed the prop,prop shaft, diesel engines, copper fuel lines, and metal fuel tank plus the dinghy davits. I'm going to use a folding kayak.