Alan Payne Design: Your Opinions ?

[troppo]

Do you think this boat would be reasonable for cruising up and down the east coast of Australia short handed?

It is an Alan Payne design. I was told she is an Ampopetta Class No. 2, 39 foot (45 if include bowsprit), 9 foot beam, draft 5 foot 6. Her sister ship did the Sydney to Hobart yacht race.

Classic Yacht Alan Payne Design | eBay

On the 'net, I found out that on 9 Nov 1960, the largest plywood yacht ever built in Australia was launched in Sydney, built by E J Goldsteen and designed by Alan Payne. It was called Ampopetta and was 40 ' with 4' 9" draft and beam over 10'. Apparently it was built to race the Sydney to Hobart and did two of them. The beam and draft are different to the one on ebay but it is probably the sister ship to the ebay one.

The only other mention I can find is that a Mac Shannon of Sydney had an Ampopetta called Chione designed by Alan Payne. That is not much info.

So, what do you think this boat would be like to sail?

[stillbuilding]

AP designs were universally sea-worthy, fast light displacement. If construction is sound then should be good depending on aspiration. Not heavy displacement so long term living maybe not.

[troppo]

Originally Posted by stillbuilding

Not heavy displacement so long term living maybe not.

Stillbuilding, I guess that relates to the room inside? I think the boat is much narrower, for example than say a 36 foot Roberts designed steel boat which has a huge interior. Or is there another factor to do with long term living?

I'm more after short-term cruising, maybe a month at a time. Even if not as much room as a modern 40 footer, it should have more space inside than the 25 footers I've seen around for the same money so that's all good to me : ).

[troppo]

Just looking at specs of a Bavaria 40, the beam is 13 feet. The Alan Payne yacht has a beam of 9 feet so a huge difference in width. What difference does a narrow beam make for sailing?

[stillbuilding]

Originally Posted by troppo

Just looking at specs of a Bavaria 40, the beam is 13 feet. The Alan Payne yacht has a beam of 9 feet so a huge difference in width. What difference does a narrow beam make for sailing?

I have known several AP designs in steel and wood. I do not think I have been on one that did not sail well. Faster than fat beamy boats, nice action in a seaway and quite stiff in a good breeze. If only for few months at a time it should suit fine and be easily managed by light crew. As noted above, not as much volume but neat and tidy boats that do sail and stand heavy going. I would be happy to take one anywhere - and indeed they have gone everywhere.
Ply maybe not my cup of tea but good for its purpose.

[boden36]

Alan Payne was a renowned naval architect. If she was designed to suit your purpose, rather than worrying about the design I would be more worried about the structural integrity of a ply yacht that old. You will need a very particular survey.
Regards,
Richard.

[boatman61]

With that chined hull she'll be a dream... and fast...
Yup... if she's sound she'll be perfect... looks lovely...
Oh... and I see no reason she could not be a live aboard...

[smo]

i agree the survey would be your best first step
alan payne was a great designer. i rememvber his america's cup designs
any chanc this was home built. if so is it built to the design or customized/improved by the owner builder.

[rusky]

They are lovely boats and will sail well. However they are a very wet boat [will ship a lot of water over the bow]

Cruising the qld coast in it, will be a breeze..

enjoy

[centralyachts]

First, beware resale on a plywood yacht.
Second, Alan Payne designs are eminently seaworthy but wet, cramped and hobbled by the rule of the day (long overhangs to work around the RORC rule).
I cruised thousands of miles around Australia in a 34' Robert Clark design modified by AP, which was a great sailing boat, but with only 8'6" beam had less room than the heads on my current yacht. And with long overhangs had a tendency to hobby-horse in the east australian chop - end result: going nowhere.
Did I mention WET?!!!

Hahaha - never again!

Stick with glass if you can afford it, and if not go plank-on-frame or West System if you a daft enough (like me) to own a wooden boat.

PM or email me if you need more advice...

[ozepool]

Great yacht, my father built 6 of them, we owned the first one and 4th, the one on ebay has been extensively altered, bowsprit, mast, keel and rudder look the same, dog house, selfdrain cockpit?, crazy engine change etc. It is very cheap, I would sail it before I bought it. As designed by uncle Alan, it would sail to windward by itself, just trim the jib to refine course, dry too as the long bow divides the waves and the chines push the spray away, the 10' 4"beam helps too. The lute stern and bow overhang increase the waterline lenght making it a very fast upright ride. Originally it had a Stewart Turner 10 hp installed under the cockpit driving the 20 x 18 prop via 4 "A" belts 3to1 reduction, would do 6 1/2 knots astern but hang on to the tiller as the rudder balance would take charge if you let go, the gear lever was a "tram"handle thru the bridge deck between the cockpit and companionway, I could sail Ampopetta single handed and often did as Dad liked to have a few. I think #2 was called Rudged Kipling although I need more memory proding. I still have the design model and APs plans, was thinking of making a scale model just big enough for one person to sail, yeah, just thinking. As for the alterations, I can't see how you could sail it sitting up on the stern, same with trying to sleep at sea in the forward bunks, the original design was well thought out, was comfortable and safe, I would restore it. Before I would buy it make sure the ply at the chines is OK, also pull some keel bolts that were tapped into the iron fin 4" to check for corrosion, they were set in redlead and linceed oil, chech the rudder has no water in it, just make a new one if rusted, cheapest way.

[ozepool]

Originally Posted by troppo

Do you think this boat would be reasonable for cruising up and down the east coast of Australia short handed?

It is an Alan Payne design. I was told she is an Ampopetta Class No. 2, 39 foot (45 if include bowsprit), 9 foot beam, draft 5 foot 6. Her sister ship did the Sydney to Hobart yacht race. 10'4'' actually

Classic Yacht Alan Payne Design | eBay

On the 'net, I found out that on 9 Nov 1960, the largest plywood yacht ever built in Australia was launched in Sydney, built by E J Goldsteen and designed by Alan Payne. It was called Ampopetta and was 40 ' with 4' 9" draft and beam over 10'. Apparently it was built to race the Sydney to Hobart and did two of them. The beam and draft are different to the one on ebay but it is probably the sister ship to the ebay one.
Must be typo

The only other mention I can find is that a Mac Shannon of Sydney had an Ampopetta called Chione designed by Alan Payne. That is not much info.

So, what do you think this boat would be like to sail?

All Ampopettas' are the same size, all the frames were made from patterns, the frames were set up on the backbone in a jig, after which the chine and shear timbers were fitted, then the whole thing was inverted all faired off and the 3/4" ply was added, bottom halves are one piece, the topsides were scarfed about level with the cockpit. After bottom was faired at chines and bow, keel fairing added, the hull was turned upright for deck and cabin 3/4" ply skins The exact final LOA depended on the bow fairing being allmost a knife edge, the cast iron fin keel also came to a knife edge. I remember under power running over a railway sleeper on Sydney harbor, we felt a light bump and 2 pieces came out the stern quarters. No damage but Dad was angry with me for not avoiding it

[jak3b]

I know this is an old post but I was wondering if the building plans for Alan Paynes Skookum design are available for sale still?.

[ozepool]

I'm 75 now, still have the design model up on the shelf, all still in my memory, where does the time go? 2 four letter words boat and work! BUT it was fun Bob