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Old 21-02-2008, 09:27   #1
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advise appreciated

we are going cruising in July and look for a good cc monohull

the gulfstar 45 interests us a lot but we are confused with the stories about poor quality of the 50' etc as they were produced for charter mainly

how about the 45
30 produced and 6 for sale for decent pricing compared with simular yachts.

Second question = do they sail well? they seems to be a bit underpowered with the lenght of mast and her volume

appreciate the advise from you out there doing what we will do finally = sail

Eric
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Old 21-02-2008, 09:38   #2
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The Gulfstar 45 is a different hull form with many different design features from the other Gulfstars. They share a lot of the same hardware and things, but there are a number of differences - one of them being speed.

The Gulfstar 45 is called a "Hirsh", while no other Gulfstars were done by Hirsh. (it is frequenly incorrectly spelled Hirsch if you are looking for them online)

The Gulfstar 45 is a better sailor than other Gulfstars and better than full keel boats, as it has a modified fin keel. That said, you will need to add a downwind sail if you want to be happy. The boat points up well (for a modified fin) and we averaged 6-7 knots, averaging all conditions, from dead calm to blustery. The max speed we ever saw was 8.9 knots, but we never did see 9. You'll see 6 knots all the time, and 7 a lot of the time.

The sail plan is not tall but in all honesty, I don't see putting anything larger on this boat. As it is, the genoa sheets are 3/4", the mainsheet is 5/8", etc... lots of force there.

They are a good combination between a boat that will sail, and a boat that will be safe in the ultimte storm (full keels), with their modified fin keel.

They can take a lot of weather, given the 26,000lbs displacement. They are very comfortable under sail and feel like you can go just about anywhere in them without worrying about the boat. They are strong too. I hit a dock once on my first day out with her backing into a slip. I broke the dock and had to pay for the damage. Boat damage? Not even a scratch. Just a little mark from the wood of the dock I had to buff out with a little spit and my finger.

When buying them, watch for gelcoat voids. We had more of them than I was comfortable with. Other than that... very reliable boat. Everything was built strongly.

PM me with any questions you might have. I know this boat inside, out, under and over.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ericvanduyn View Post
we are going cruising in July and look for a good cc monohull

the gulfstar 45 interests us a lot but we are confused with the stories about poor quality of the 50' etc as they were produced for charter mainly

how about the 45
30 produced and 6 for sale for decent pricing compared with simular yachts.

Second question = do they sail well? they seems to be a bit underpowered with the lenght of mast and her volume

appreciate the advise from you out there doing what we will do finally = sail

Eric
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Old 21-02-2008, 09:44   #3
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Here is a link to my old one...

She now lives in Canada.

Gulfstar Hirsch 45, 1987, Jersey City, New Jersey, $89,900

Let me know which ones you are considering. I know which have been on the market and how long. Some were on the market even after I bought and then sold mine. I looked and one of them still is!
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Old 21-02-2008, 09:48   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssullivan View Post
The Gulfstar 45 is a different hull form with many different design features from the other Gulfstars. They share a lot of the same hardware and things, but there are a number of differences - one of them being speed.

The Gulfstar 45 is called a "Hirsh", while no other Gulfstars were done by Hirsh. (it is frequenly incorrectly spelled Hirsch if you are looking for them online)

The Gulfstar 45 is a better sailor than other Gulfstars and better than full keel boats, as it has a modified fin keel. That said, you will need to add a downwind sail if you want to be happy. The boat points up well (for a modified fin) and we averaged 6-7 knots, averaging all conditions, from dead calm to blustery. The max speed we ever saw was 8.9 knots, but we never did see 9. You'll see 6 knots all the time, and 7 a lot of the time.

The sail plan is not tall but in all honesty, I don't see putting anything larger on this boat. As it is, the genoa sheets are 3/4", the mainsheet is 5/8", etc... lots of force there.

They are a good combination between a boat that will sail, and a boat that will be safe in the ultimte storm (full keels), with their modified fin keel.

They can take a lot of weather, given the 26,000lbs displacement. They are very comfortable under sail and feel like you can go just about anywhere in them without worrying about the boat. They are strong too. I hit a dock once on my first day out with her backing into a slip. I broke the dock and had to pay for the damage. Boat damage? Not even a scratch. Just a little mark from the wood of the dock I had to buff out with a little spit and my finger.

When buying them, watch for gelcoat voids. We had more of them than I was comfortable with. Other than that... very reliable boat. Everything was built strongly.

PM me with any questions you might have. I know this boat inside, out, under and over.
Sullivan; great and many thanks as this is most comforting to hear from an owner//not the broker

You are correct on Hirsh as it was misspelled we never found out. He was a good designer? What do you think of her entry?
Could you compare her with the famous Norseman 44.7? (double the price)

Would you consider a 50 instead for better ? sailing / cruising?

*we found one ketch and are trying to find out if that was originally produced as ketch as this seems a good idea NO/?

** is she not fully glassed? what core does she have on hull and deck?

***would you have an airco or is she well ventilated from your experience?

Eric
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Old 21-02-2008, 09:58   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericvanduyn View Post
Sullivan; great and many thanks as this is most comforting to hear from an owner//not the broker

You are correct on Hirsh as it was misspelled we never found out. He was a good designer? What do you think of her entry?
Could you compare her with the famous Norseman 44.7? (double the price)

Would you consider a 50 instead for better ? sailing / cruising?

*we found one ketch and are trying to find out if that was originally produced as ketch as this seems a good idea NO/?

** is she not fully glassed? what core does she have on hull and deck?

***would you have an airco or is she well ventilated from your experience?

Eric
Ahhh finally think I got it now; correct me if wrong but we are from Europe so not familiar with your part of the world =
Charley Morgan is the designer / correct? and why 'hirsh' is that to indicate the speed related to the animal ?
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Old 21-02-2008, 10:01   #6
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believe it or not my wife just showed me your former yacht and she wrote a mail to see if she is still for sale= she looked gorgeous / pity we missed her........
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Old 21-02-2008, 10:19   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericvanduyn View Post
Sullivan; great and many thanks as this is most comforting to hear from an owner//not the broker

You are correct on Hirsh as it was misspelled we never found out. He was a good designer? What do you think of her entry?
Could you compare her with the famous Norseman 44.7? (double the price)

Would you consider a 50 instead for better ? sailing / cruising?

*we found one ketch and are trying to find out if that was originally produced as ketch as this seems a good idea NO/?

** is she not fully glassed? what core does she have on hull and deck?

***would you have an airco or is she well ventilated from your experience?

Eric
Eric,

I cannot compare with the Norseman because I have never been on or saild on a Norseman, sorry.

I would think a 50 is *not* better for sailing and cruising. This is a very personal decision. The 45 was very large and more room than 2 people need. Going to a 50 might make things too difficult for you because all hardware, rigging and everything is only going to be even bigger. I reduced the size of the boat I own. I went for a smaller boat after the Gulfstar Hirsh.

The Hirsh has a balsa core on deck and has balsa core above the waterline. Rumor has it she is glassed below the waterline, but I can only go on rumor. I have never drilled any holes out to see what was there.

Airco depends on where you will sail and where you will find power to run the airco. We did not use our airco at all because we sail in high lattitudes. The boat was well ventilated (2 dorade vents, forward hatch, opening ports all along, except the large ones in galley/salon, 2 opening hatches and companionway in main salon, opening hatch in master stateroom.
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Old 21-02-2008, 10:24   #8
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Originally Posted by ericvanduyn View Post
Ahhh finally think I got it now; correct me if wrong but we are from Europe so not familiar with your part of the world =
Charley Morgan is the designer / correct? and why 'hirsh' is that to indicate the speed related to the animal ?
When I bought the boat, I thought someone named Hirsh designed it. However, I keep seeing things saying Lazzarra designed it. He is the designer of all other Gulfstars. I still think Hirsh was the designer.

If I help you a lot, will you offer me a nice place to stay in Switzerland? (ha ha) It's one of my top 3 favorite countries. I love Zurich, Interlaken and Bern! I am kidding... but do love visting your country!
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Old 21-02-2008, 10:46   #9
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1980 Gulfstar Ketch Boot zum Verkauf
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Old 21-02-2008, 10:48   #10
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Sullivan , we live till June above the lake Thun / next to Interlaken and you are welcome to a good wine and chat about yachts and sleep over; no worries

unfortunately we have to sell our house here to go cruising with our 13 years 'old' son before he gets too rooted and into schooling etc

we tried 12 years ago with the wrong boat and the wrong timing so now we are better prepared and seems this Hirsh is the good one for us
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Old 21-02-2008, 10:52   #11
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This is not the Hirsh Gulfstar 45. Maybe it is a smaller or larger Gulfstar designed by Lazzarra. Bad conversion between Meters and Feet?

Looking closer, I think it may be a 50'.
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Old 21-02-2008, 10:57   #12
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Vince Lazzara founded Gulfstar Yachts in 1970, in St. Petersburg Florida, building sail and powerboats of up to 65 feet.
In 1989, Gulfstar merged with Viking Yachts.
By 1991, the shipyard was closed.

Lazzara was involved with AeroMarine & Pearson/Grumman Industries in the mid to late 50s - this was his first connection into his long association with boat designing & building, etc.
Lazzara owned 1/3 of AeroMarine, which built the 40 Foot Bounty. Grumman bought Pearson and then bought AreoMarine.
After selling AeroMarine he joined Dick Valdes & Maurice Threinen, both in there twenties (Lazzara was in his late 40s then). Lazzarra purchased a majority interest in Glas Laminates, renamed it Columbia Yacht Corporation, and went public. He chose Columbia after the America's Cup Challenger - "Columbia".
Lazzara sold out of Columbia in 67. Lazzara was forced to sign a non-compete contract for building power/sailboats for 3 years.
So three months later he started a houseboat company selling SeaRover - all fiberglass houseboats - Sea Rover was sold to Apeco, 2 & years later, Apeco folded shortly after the sale and Lazzara resold the molds/tooling for the Sea Rover line to Holiday Mansion, which still builds houseboats in Kansas.
In January of 1970 Lazzarra broke ground on his next company: Gulfstar, Inc.,
In the early 90s Lazzara's sons, Dick and Rich, started Lazzara Yacht Corporation, building large motoryachts.

This ad’ claims the boat was designed by Designed by Richard (Dick) Lazzara:
1985 Hirsh 45 Center Cockpit - Boats.com
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Old 21-02-2008, 11:16   #13
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Eric...these are fine live aboard and decent sailing boats which are attractively priced and will serve well for family coastal cruising. They are not boats which are designed or intended for water sailing">blue water sailing and are modestly constructed. Hirsch (proper spelling) was a charter boat operator that went bankrupt in the late 80's but had boats produced under contract for them by both Gulfstar and Irwin. Usually they took an existing hull design and made some changes on deck and to the cabin space down below to optimise the boat for the islands and the charter trade.
In terms of better built/suited CC boats of the same era/price range, the Norseman certainly is. You should also look at KellyPetersons, Hylas44's and Brewer42's and maybe the Tayana42CC but that may be a bit pricier.
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Old 21-02-2008, 12:00   #14
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Eric...these are fine live aboard and decent sailing boats which are attractively priced and will serve well for family coastal cruising. They are not boats which are designed or intended for blue water sailing and are modestly constructed. Hirsch (proper spelling) was a charter boat operator that went bankrupt in the late 80's but had boats produced under contract for them by both Gulfstar and Irwin. Usually they took an existing hull design and made some changes on deck and to the cabin space down below to optimise the boat for the islands and the charter trade.
In terms of better built/suited CC boats of the same era/price range, the Norseman certainly is. You should also look at KellyPetersons, Hylas44's and Brewer42's and maybe the Tayana42CC but that may be a bit pricier.
You are off on more than one point, first being the spelling of "Hirsh." Please board one of these boats and look at the name plate on the aftmost part of the coachroof. You can learn to spell Hirsh properly from reading that nameplate.

The boats you suggest (Hylas, Tayana 42) are way out of the price range. These boats are more sturdy than many modern day "blue water" boats that are built and cruised around the world.

If I were Eric, I'd pass on this particular post and contine researching. Well, except for the historical part about the charter business. Interesting.
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Old 22-02-2008, 06:08   #15
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Thanks camaraderie and Ssullivan; found out via via that indeed this was Hirsh / charter company. Can imagine as Ssullivan writes the quality might be acceptably good but still questionable

We keep also interest in a 50 ' gulfstar and learned/ as many on the market and prices flexible= not too high that the only good one is the serie called ''Auxillary''

does anybody know more about the 50's?
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