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Old 06-05-2013, 18:33   #16
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Re: Advice on Winged Keel Pearson 31

there are people who have been aground, those that will go aground, ................ and then there are the liars!


when I got my first boat (the BIG wing keel with shoal draft) I went aground the first time out!
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:03   #17
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Re: Advice on Winged Keel Pearson 31

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Every boat is a compromise based upon finances, availability,sailing characteristics and where you like to cruise but I can assure you there are far more places of beauty to sail and anchor that are inaccessible to deep draft fin keels than the reverse. Finally, I have met countless cruisers who have cursed the day they bought their deep draft fin for their restrictiveness(but they can point really high), but never one who was unhappy with their shallow draft boat . . . that is, however, unless they were constantly running aground and dragging a strings of pots as must be the case with some of our hapless commentators. Never see Captain Ron do that! Good luck, good sailing and happy navigation?
I won't destroy your database. Luckily I got to sail my friend's Morgan Outisland 41 many times before becoming a boat owner. This boat has 4 feet of draft. Based on this experience I would have been a very unhappy shoal draft boat owner if this had been my boat.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:33   #18
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Re: Advice on Winged Keel Pearson 31

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Originally Posted by Don L View Post
there are people who have been aground, those that will go aground, ................ and then there are the liars!


when I got my first boat (the BIG wing keel with shoal draft) I went aground the first time out!


Don, you must have slept through your Philosophy 101 class or opted for Bowling 101 as a substitute since your syllogistic reasoning in the above remarks are a classic example of the fallacy of Guilt by Association:

Don is a sailor.
Don frequently runs aground.
Therefore, all sailors frequently run aground.

Good luck and happy continued groundings. By the way, do you also specialize in crabpots? May I suggest a terrific course offered by the US Coast Guard Auxiliary: Boating Skills and Seamanship. I'll gladly contribute to fund your own personal chart of your home waters . . . really!
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Old 07-05-2013, 15:02   #19
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Re: Advice on Winged Keel Pearson 31

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Don, you must have slept through your Philosophy 101 class or opted for Bowling 101 as a substitute since your syllogistic reasoning in the above remarks are a classic example of the fallacy of Guilt by Association:

Don is a sailor.
Don frequently runs aground.
Therefore, all sailors frequently run aground.

Good luck and happy continued groundings. By the way, do you also specialize in crabpots? May I suggest a terrific course offered by the US Coast Guard Auxiliary: Boating Skills and Seamanship. I'll gladly contribute to fund your own personal chart of your home waters . . . really!
I don't really know what you are talking about. Maybe you took some weird drug when/if you took whatever 101 class you sat in on.

Don doesn't frequently go aground!!! If you somehow read what I wrote as saying otherwise you better take another 101 reading class.

You apparently are a nut based on your great body of writing here on CF so it doesn't really matter much to me what you believe!
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Old 07-05-2013, 16:22   #20
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Re: Advice on Winged Keel Pearson 31

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I don't really know what you are talking about. Maybe you took some weird drug when/if you took whatever 101 class you sat in on.

Don doesn't frequently go aground!!! If you somehow read what I wrote as saying otherwise you better take another 101 reading class.

You apparently are a nut based on your great body of writing here on CF so it doesn't really matter much to me what you believe!

Don, when you resort to using terms like "liar," "nuts," "took some weird drug" in referring to me, you degrade the quality of the discussion and turn it into a personal attack. You obviously are ill prepared to deal rationally, intelligently and logically in this discussion when you use this language since you are allowing your personal bias and emotions to affect your responses when you resort to name calling. In regards to your last response, I honestly don't know many of my friends who continually ground their vessels ("when I got my new vessel . . . I went aground the first time out"--Capt. Don) as you do since most cruisers I know practice navigation in unknown waters and use local knowledge in home waters . And, aground with a shoal draft wing keel? Were you beach sailing? Reef surfing? Or, just so excited with your new boat you thought you were crossing the North Atlantic in a Force 8 storm rather than a gentle daysail in the bay? I have tried to provide an honest evaluation for the OP who is seriously considering buying a P 31-2, which is a fine all-around boat, and separate the wheat from the chaff by providing a balanced discussion countermanding any negative remarks about the wing keel and its appropriateness for the intended work. I own a P 34-2 and have been very happy with my boat for both inshore and offshore work-- for which I have done a respectable amount. I cannot possibly know who you are(nor you, I) and must judge you by the words you write. And,in my opinion, much of what you write is either illogical, unintelligible or couched in personal attack. I think this discussion needs to return to a more respectable level and I will make an effort not to use humor, however perceived, when responding to your observations. I have no personal vendetta against you and believe you are probably a fine person. Nuts? I prefer pistachios. Good luck, good sailing and soft groundings.
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:15   #21
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Re: Advice on Winged Keel Pearson 31

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Well, then, there's your problem! If you haven't gone aground with the spinnaker up and drawing, you really haven't been properly aground.

I don't want to sound like an expert in going aground since I haven't done so since April, but if I don't keel-anchor at least twice a year I know I haven't been sailing hard enough.
My best one, with my 42 Catalina with winged keel, was sailing along about 7 knots, on a beam reach, really close to a barrier island, thinking how cool I looked to all of the anchored boats watching, when I ran up on a sandbar shoal that I have been knowing about all my life, and have even flounder gigged on.

It took two hours to get off, and that was only because I had the luck to run aground on a rising tide.
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Old 09-07-2013, 22:43   #22
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Re: Advice on Winged Keel Pearson 31

We own Pearson 31-2 #80 with the wing keel. The main reason we went for the wing is our favored marina has about a 4-1/2 ft channel. Our waters are the Finger Lakes and Great Lakes and the depth is only an issue in spots . . . usually the spots you want to tuck into.

This is my third wing keel (Pearson 27, Catalina 34) and they do have plusses and minuses. With the entry of the Pearson coupled with the wing we tend to slice rather than hobbyhorse in choppy water. An advantage in lanes where powerboats are interweaving a group of sailboats.

Yes, we've grounded. Hereabouts it's usually a large rock or shale shelf. The P31-2 gets kudos for the rudder being about 6" less draft than the keel. The C-34 was a few inches the opposite way and that's bad. I note more problem with weeds than mud. We have come to a halt in a large expanse of weeds. Usually because we're gunkholing where a fin wouldn't be - so it's an acceptable trade.

Doubtless we give up a few degrees of pinching to a fin. Not the best part of our polar, anyway.

We find a lot more holes and available docks with our draft, so for our grounds it is the better choice.

PS - truly enjoy our Pearson 31-2. It's an ideal boat for a couple and is a perky cruiser. We've just opted to sink some refit money in rather than sell or trade. Keep her going for the next 25 years.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:31   #23
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Re: Advice on Winged Keel Pearson 31

My friend sails at a club in Boston that has two of these Pearson 31 with winged keels. We sailed on it and did not run aground or snag any lobster pots. It has a pretty substantial mast and if I recall correctly it is keel stepped.

Regarding the poster who recommended another take a Coast Guard Auxiliary course, I have. The instructors mostly were mostly knowledgeable about power boats, and one suggested you should not enter a harbor where the depth was not twice your boats draft. That would be pretty limiting, even around here. Otherwise I found the courses to be quite worthwhile. I am presently taking Advanced Coastal Piloting for a lttle over $100 including materials like a paralline plotter, dividers and a chart for instructional use only (that can be used for navigation in a pinch, don't ask).

Look at the wing, if not on your boat then another just like it. The only way this is going to be more likely to snag a lobster pot would probably be going backwards.

The boat also has a spade rudder as I recall. It spins on a dime, and also backs up reasonably well. Pearson makes great boats.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:47   #24
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Re: Advice on Winged Keel Pearson 31

I think this is a picture of the Pearson 31 wing keel.

1987 Pearson 31-2 sailboat for sale in Massachusetts

In case you get the whole listing, it's the first photo, and I guess it could catch a lobster buoy after all, going in either direction. That's why you are supposed to maintain a look-out at all times, not just the convenient ones.

We think this is the boat we have sailed on and is no longer for sale. it also has a double spreader mast and very good headroom below, plus the spiff-nifty trash bin in the lazarette with a pet-door to access it from the galley, so the trash isn't kept in the cabin. Sort of like those recesses for sweeping the cabin into a built in dust-pan: a nice touch but probably not the only reason to like the boat.
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Old 10-11-2013, 12:17   #25
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Re: Advice on Winged Keel Pearson 31

Running aground is an art I've mastered. Can do it any time and almost anywhere. Must admit that running hard aground with any speed on makes it hard to kedge off without the help of waves and/or tide. Can see how a winged keel could make it even harder. Fortunately, usually run aground where waiting for tide is no big thing. Sailing the rocky coast of Maine, a grounding is probably not something you walk away from unscathed. Of course, the water's tend to be deep so running aground isn't that much of an issue.

Owning a center board boat, painting the board is an issue that is easily dealt with. Just arrange with the yard to hoist you in the straps the last thing in the day. Paint the bottom of the wing when everyone leaves and splash the boat first thing in the morning. Paint has plenty of time to dry and you aren't rushed.

Winged keels can't be all that bad to weather. The Aussie's won the America's Cup when they equipped their 12 meter with a winged keel. Having said that, windward ability is something adored beyond all reason by the racing set. For the cruiser, you want a boat that will go to weather but that last 10 degree advantage isn't a big concern.
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:58   #26
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Re: Advice on Winged Keel Pearson 31

I don't count all my groundings. When I lived and sailed in Annapolis, the Cheasapeake and Severn were mostly soft mud.

We knew we had run aground when the boat began to slow. Our rule was, that if it didn't speed back up in three or four minutes, we would change course for deeper water.

Sand, rocks, and oyster reefs, are not so forgiving.
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:19   #27
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Re: Advice on Winged Keel Pearson 31

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, beasailor.
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