Advice on this Boat and our first voyage

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha GZ,
If you've lurked here and read some threads and did some searches then you'll know that you are looking at a boat that is too big. It would make a good apartment but what I understand is that you want to learn to sail and then actually sail. My ideal boat for a couple would be no longer than 36. If the third person is a stranger then maybe up to a 42.
Search some threads to read the reasons why.
Good luck in your search and decision. There are some boats that are owned by members of this forum that are for sale. You might want to ask them questions.
Kind Regards,
JohnL

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by GZgunner

It will be myself , my girlfriend and possibly 1 other person. We are planning on a 3-5 yr trip starting off the coast of the US then on to the Bahamas and carribean. We would eventualy like to make an ocean passage to see and explore the rest of the world.

. . . we are in California . . .

Originally Posted by GZgunner

. . . we wanted to purchase our boat soon ( within the next 6 months) so we would have over a yrs experience on her.

Welcome to the Forum, gunner. I'm trying to get a clear picture of just what it is you intend to do, and I'm still confused. I know you're in California, intend to buy a vessel within the next six months, spend another year sailing her and getting comfortable while re-fitting to the extent necessary, then jumping off-shore to the Bahamas and down-island.

If I have that right, you must be planning to buy your vessel on the east coast. Does that mean you're leaving California soon to re-locate back east? Flying back and forth from California to look at boats will quickly get old, if that's what you're thinking.

Are you certain that you want a monohull? Have you considered multihulls? You will find that you have many advantages with a multi, among them shallow draft, level sailing, spacious cockpit that you'll love at anchor, separate-hull privacy with a pleasant "meeting place" on the bridge deck - I could go on, but if you've already decided to get a monohull, nothing I write will sway you.

Without wanting to pry into your personal lives, it could be informative to know how old you, your girlfriend and your potential third crew are. Is this your dream, and the others are just "going along." If so, you can't be certain they won't jump ship after the first fight-disappointment-scary moment.

If that happens, are you prepared to deal with the consequences? You could find yourself alone, in a foreign port, depressed - and in command of a huge vessel (if you get the Morgan 51) that you very likely cannot singlehand. There are many such vessels in ports all over the world waiting for a buyer.

Lest that last paragraph seem too much of a downer, that's not my intent. I encourage you, in fact, to pursue your sailing dreams. As they say, hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

TaoJones

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

Aloha GZ,
It would make a good apartment but what I understand is that you want to learn to sail and then actually sail. My ideal boat for a couple would be no longer than 36. If the third person is a stranger then maybe up to a 42.

Agreed. I know a couple of people who live on these but no one who gets away from the dock with it. One couple I know took off in one and sold it for a cat in Florida. I've sailed the Morgan OI42 and it is a medium performer. Build like a tank, sails like a tank, plenty of room to get thrown around in heavy seas, and best of all NO TEAK. This used to be a popular charter boat in it's day. Did I mention NO TEAK. The 51 does have a real engine room.

[GZgunner]

Alrighty lets get the dirt out, I am 38yrs my Gf is 30, and my lifelong friend who has cancer is 36.

My GF and I have been saving and planning something like this for sometime. When my friend discovered his illness, we talked about it and decided to ask him if he wanted to come along with us.

You brought up another one of my questions, if I buy the boat on the east coast is it fesible to bring it back home for the next yr to use every weekend or I asked in my last post can a west coast boat handle or be made to handle the cruising of the east and onward.

I know they are made for total different weather and seas etc but is it not even worth the hassle if we are eventualy going to be heading east.

Please have patience with me , I admit I am new and will ask every question possible but your time and knowledge is going to be put to good use.

Our business is based out west so leaving is not an option til we sell it.

Oh yeah also I have thought about the Cat and I like the idea of the way they are setup. Some of them are beautiful and expensive This is an option of ours also.

[roverhi]

Get privacy out of your mind. The Queen Mary has privacy, a sailboat has limited areas to maintain modesty. For a couple, a 40' boat is more than adequate unless you plan on this being a floating condo that will travel on your back around the world. Hardships, notice the ship part in that, come with the territory. If you expect airconditioned comfort, hot showers at all hours, satellite tv, etc, etc. you must either be very rich or you can talk to one of the cruise lines.

Personally, I doubt whether any sailboat is big enough for cruising with more than a couple or a family. We carelessly invited people to come sail with us when we were preparing to leave for SoPac. Unfortunately, one person took us up and showed up in the Marquesas for a three month stay. A great guy, very easy to live with, enthusiastic about adventures, couldn't ask for a better crew. At the end of those 3 months, we were ready to stage a drowning accident and he felt the same about us. Took a decade before we could look back on it and laugh.

If you really think you'll have a long term crew/passenger, get a boat with two sleeping cabins. Hard to do in under 40' and probably more suited to 45'. The Hood/Wauquiez 38 makes a decent attempt at it in the under 40' range. Over 40, you've got a host of center cockpit boats from Brewer, Kelly Peterson, Westsail, 42/43, and the dockominiums from Beneteau and other builders. The first three will fit in your budget, the latter probably wouldn't.

Budget at least 1/2 the purchase price for upgrades and repairs unless the boat has just been redone by someone with knowledge of what they were doing. Discount all included electroncis to vitrually nothing. These change so fast that even a year or two makes them ancient. You'll need at least two dinghies. We prefer a hard sailing dinghy and an inflatable. Why two?? if one person goes ashore alone, the other person becomes a prisoner on the boat without a second dinghy. Togetherness is wonderful but you don't want to be forced to go every together.

Make sure any boat has good storage. Take all the things that you can't live without, including clothes, galley gear, tools, etc and put them in the middle of the living room. Sort them according to use and where you might want to store them. Measure the pile, especially odd shaped and large items. Then, when you go boat shopping, be sure there is a place for everyone of these things on the prospective boat or you can build the space to store it. Also a good idea to cut yourself down to just using these bare essentials, now. That way, living aboard will be old hat and not a devestating shock.

Ask questions about the boats you are looking at. A good broker can help immensely. Find one who has done more than just race around the buoys. A good broker will save you way more than their fee on the purchase of your dream boat. Get opinions beyond 'it's light and airy and feels spacious. Space is just empty air that could be used for storage, if the boat was properly set up. Check the boats reputation for bad weather capabilities and quality of construction. Haunt the local crew directories and try and sail on as many different boats as you can weasel your way onto. All boats are different. What might work for me, might not for you. If you find a skipper and crew that you like to sail with, volunteer to help with the maintenance. It will give you a lot of knowledge about maintaining a boat and an idea of the scope of the task.

If you have limited sailing experience, buy an 8-10' dink that you can practice your sailing on. Everything I needed to know about wind and making the boat go where I wanted, I learned on a homebuilt sailfish as a kid. Almost everything else you can pick up from books. The dinghy will become your tender on the bigger boat so is money well spent. These can be picked up off of Craig's list in any large sailing center for $300-$2,000. Be concerned about servicability more than beautiful teak joinery. The nicer the dinghy looks, the more tempting it will be for a thief. Same goes for the inflatable. Dinghies probably disappear more than any other piece of boat equipment. Figure out a way to lock yours up.

Read every blog, join every mailing list and read any cruising book you can find. All are great sources of wisdom, and some not so smart ideas, that will enhance your boat choice and cruising experience. Don't feel embarassed about asking dumb questions. We were all dumb once and the ones that know all the answers are the dumbest.

Take your time in finding your boat and gaining experience. Once you have the boat, sail the **** out of it. As your level of confidence increases go out when the weather sucks. Anyone can sail a boat on a bright sunny day with 10mph winds. It's a whole 'nother story when it's dark/rainy/blowing 25/and the waves are up. BEFORE you leave on your cruise, make sure that you have sailed at least 500 continuous miles offshore, even if it is just an out and in. Amazing what you'll discover you forgot, or don't need when you are out there on your own.

Enjoy the process. Cruising is great but not as easy as it looks in the photos from the magazines. The more indenpendent you become in your life ashore, the more you will enjoy the cruising life.

Aloha
Peter O.

[roverhi]

Quick comment on the Farr. All those cubbies will be useless in a seaway. Without some way to keep the contents in them, all the stuff on the windward side will end up on the deck, or worse, after every tack. Not a deal killer but something you'll have to deal with. Farr's have a great reputation as good sailors, other than that.

Shipping a boat from East to West Coast is expensive, at least 5 boat units and proabably way more in the size you are talking about. Costs can be cut if you ship from a port in Texas to San Diego or LA. Probably best to wait patiently for a boat on the West Coast, however. Other than the need for extreme shallow draft in some areas of the East Coast, there is no difference in what a boat will be required to do. The sea is the sea, the boat should be capable of taking it all on.

Take a look at this boat. It's probably beat a bit but the price is decent. YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale=

Aloha
Peter O.

[TaoJones]

Thanks for the additional information, gunner. I'm very sorry to read of your friend's cancer.

His medical condition, of course, raises other potential problems. If he has completed his course of treatment by the time you're all ready to slip the lines and head over the horizon, though, so much the better. I hope his cancer is in relapse, and he has a long life ahead of him.

I would strongly suggest you buy a west coast vessel, gunner. You can find any number of candidates right in the Bay Area, and if you need to go further afield, "your" boat is already somewhere between San Diego and Vancouver, just waiting for you.

If you do want to go the multihull route, the pickings are pretty slim on the west coast, but if you're persistent you'll find one. I wouldn't even consider buying on the west coast, then having the vessel re-located to the east coast so I could start my cruise from there.

Nor would I buy a vessel back east, even if it's "perfect," then having it re-located to the west coast so you can use it there until you sell your west coast based business. Better, it seems to me, to buy a boat where you already are, enjoy it for the time you're stuck there, then sell it and get something else back east when you're able to re-locate there.

Alternatively, if you find just what you want on the west coast, spend a year or two getting completely comfortable with her, have gotten her completely ready for a world cruise, just start that cruise from where you are. San Francisco to Hawaii is an excellent first passage, then head into the South Pacific and let the trades take you where you want to go at your leisure - you'll get to the Caribe eventually, without having to go against the grain.

Other than that, I heartily endorse what SkiprJohn advises when it comes to deciding on size of vessel. If you really want it to be bigger, keeping it under 45' is a good idea. Personally, I would go for a catamaran in the 38-42' range.

TaoJones

[Ex-Calif]

I am not sure that I know where to dive in here. Lots of opinion of course but I still don't understand the mission.

1/ You want to sail with your g/f and friend from the east coast but you live on the west coast.
2/ You have pretty much zero sailing experience but want a 50+foot boat for privacy
3/ You want to go within 1 1/2 years.
4/ You have a 150-175k boat budget

Just some thoughts - you need to get real smart, real fast. Asking here is good but there are as many opinions as there are people. You and g/f may be fully ready to sail a 50ft boat in 18 months. I have no idea. Certainly young, fit experienced and strong people can sail a 50 foot boat.

My concern is the budget. As others have said you should plan on 50% of the purchase price for refit unless you get a gem. Go to sites like Yachtworld.com and boats.com and start doing searches. And remember this. There is no sanata claus - If 90% of the boats you like are $250k the $150k boat in the same class is going to be a POS.

After you spend $200-250 on a fitted out boat you will need to budget around $1,000 per month to keep it that way. Some may disagree but there are big expensive items on a boat that are deteriorating at all times. Bottom paint, sails, rigging, engine, systems.

OK a couple of final thoughts related to 1-4 above.

1/ Buy a boat where you are. Moving a boat is expensive and looking at boats far away is expensive. Have you considered cruising Mexico for a while first? There are tons of places along the west coast to gain experience. Also from the West Coast you might consider Polynesia and then Asia as longer range goals.
2/ Get on the water ASAP. I would consider buying a training boat - 28 foot or less, take a couple of classes and start sailing as much as possible. I don't know where you are out west but you might try and find a club, meet sailing people, get experience. Later you can sell the training boat and the difference in buy/sell price (if any) is the price of your training.
3/ I think this is doable but yuo should plan to be on the water every weekend between now and then. You should progress to passages to Catalina, mexico etc.
4/ I think the budget is very marginal. You should read the thread on $200k cats.

Actually - this is an entirely different way to go.

Take a liveaboard training/charter course for cats. I think a cat makes sense for you guys for a few reasons. Port hull yours, starboard hull his - helps with the privacy thing. Cats sail upright and have nice liveaboard space. There is a reason they are so popular in the islands. I could see myself buying a decent cat in the southeast and launching almost immediately.

[David M]

I would start by getting some really good sailing lessons on the San Francisco Bay. Advance yourself through the sailing program until you are doing coastal cruising classes.

Having an intimate knowledge of sailboats will let you better know what you really want. (A Morgan may not be the boat you really want) No offense, but they are not the best sailing boat from the one time I was aboard one.

You may also save yourself either trucking or delivery charges of thousands of dollars by finding a boat you really want on the West Coast. There are good cheap cruising boats on the West Coast but you will not know the good from the garbage until you have had more experience with a variety of boats.

Olympic Circle Sailing School in Berkeley CA has an excellent program. They are not just trying to get you through quickly so they can make the big bucks by getting you out on a charter boat for the day like so many other sailing schools do. They make sure you learn and then give you a difficult test before they let you charter. You learn this way.

BTW, the SF Bay is one of the best places to learn in the world because of the high winds, wind shifts, the currents, the commercial traffic and all the other varied conditions.

[rsn48]

Purchase the "Cost Conscious Cruiser" by Lin and Larry Pardey. Get your sailboat on the West Coast as has been suggested and take your friend out cruising locally. Taking a cancer survivor on a cruise out of country is risky financially and health wise if medical emergencies arise. Heck for a Canadian to get sick in the States is risky. If your friend is a serious as you say, he/she won't be able to get health insurance to cover out of country medical expenses.

I know you may not want to hear this from an ex-hospital chaplain, but don't set your life's agenda based on another's needs they may not have. If you do go cruising as you plan, it may be a whole lot smarter to have your friend meet you in a port in a well built up area with a decent hospital. Chances are you won't need it; if your friend flew in probably they can fly out if their health turns unexpectedly.

My father had colon cancer and developed a deteriorating condition that needed surgery immediately; this was when they were living in a condo in Palm Springs but their residency was in Qualicum Beach in BC. To treat my dad in Palm Springs would have been incredibly expensive. I had to fly down, get my dad on a plane, then drive my mother home (she had a fear of flying). Personally I have experienced cancer taking an unexpected turn in a "foreign" country - even though it was the states.

My best friend also died of colon cancer. During the course of this nasty cancer, he lost his tolerance to heat. Physical requirements can change with a cancer survivor, best to base your plans on what you want to do.

You are planning for something a year and a half away, does your friend's cancer know this. Best to get a boat and sail locally with your friend, then feel out your future plans with the friend when you are actually ready to leave.

With cancer, living for today is usually the wisest course of action.

[henryk]

I bought my boat just last may in St Petersburg and like you didn't have much experience in sailing , but i did listen to one advice in buying boat "keep it small and simple" . I'm the owner of Tayana 42 centre cockpit . I was researching for over a year , and this was just the right boat for us . This boat is big enough for me, my wife and my two kids , age 12 and 8 .She will have to be outfitted with chart plotter , windlass ,water heater , SSB radio , radar , dinghy motor ,wind vane, solar panels , bimini top ,water maker and gazillion other things we'll need . All this is going to cost us around thirty thousands ,but I bet it will be more .We are planning to go cruising for minimum two years , and if we like it ,we'll continue . The boat had all new sails, newer standing and running rigging ,dinghy davits . Those boats are very seaworthy and well build , and two people can sail them with no problem . For people looking for the house , or the boat I have always one advice " buy what you need, not what you can afford " .
Regards
Henryk , Tayana 42 Vancouver