Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-10-2016, 15:09   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 23
Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

Hi guys, I've come across a rather clean c&c 27 with the yanmar 2 cyl diesel. The current owner has only owned for the season and was purchased off a retired engineer (who kept great records). He is moving away and has agreed to $7500 Canadian. Here are my areas of concern.. I know these are balsa cored and have deck issues.. I felt this one out and tapped for a solid hour and found it to be quite solid with no obvious squishy spots. Although when I walked up into the v berth I could hear the floor make a slight creak. The keel bolts looked good but there was some obvious surface rust on maybe the washers? The area was also wet but be mentioned he just hosed the interior.. Which looked accurate and the water was definitely not salty. He 'promised' it's been dry all season. The hull is in decent shape - a few scratches and one little area at the bow showing a small bit of Fiberglass. Diesel motor seemed to run great and had lots of new parts. There was a small rust stain (sign of water intrusions?) running down from where the mast connects on the inside of the cabin but it looked to be very old. Only the most aft stanchions showed signs of spidercracks. One other area that looked strange to me was under the settee seat which had some newer Fiberglass laid over top and a strange circular pattern.. Any ideas? Sorry if this post seems scrambled but I am just throwing it together on my boat ride back so I can get some feedback before it sells to someone else (3 people were also viewing it).

Thanks for any help!!













Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	504
Size:	416.3 KB
ID:	133584  
jc12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2016, 18:26   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 23
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

someone must know more than me!
jc12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2016, 19:49   #3
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 14,262
Images: 66
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

Hard to tell from here of course, but I didn't hear or see any major areas of concern. How are sails and rigging? Getting a survey is usually a good way to go but sounds like you are feeling rushed. I am not a C&C owner though so I hope some of them will chime in here for you! What year is that? Is that the Mark I? Any records of engine maintenance or rebuild? The squeaking was in the cabin floor (sole) right? Not a concern.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2016, 20:21   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 23
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

Hi! It is a 1974, the squeaking is in the v berth but there is also a bit of a creak around where the port in the v berth is when standing on the deck.. I figured this might be due to the large hole in the deck? No real maintenance records.. some receipts i believe. I have felt a little rushed (this one in particular as he is also selling due to leaving the country and departs on friday). I have been looking for a while now and every well priced boat below the 8k threshold seems to sell within the first few days making it alarmingly difficult to get a survey.
jc12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2016, 20:29   #5
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 14,262
Images: 66
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc12 View Post
Hi! It is a 1974, the squeaking is in the v berth but there is also a bit of a creak around where the port in the v berth is when standing on the deck.. I figured this might be due to the large hole in the deck? No real maintenance records.. some receipts i believe. I have felt a little rushed (this one in particular as he is also selling due to leaving the country and departs on friday). I have been looking for a while now and every well priced boat below the 8k threshold seems to sell within the first few days making it alarmingly difficult to get a survey.
Got a knowledgeable friend to take with you to look at it?
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2016, 21:15   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 23
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

I have a good family friend who I can bounce some things off but might not have the ability to get back out there with someone (it's an hour long ferry ride) and the seller is on his way out of the country
jc12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2016, 08:49   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Boat: C&C
Posts: 327
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

Go to www.cc27association .com . It's the 27 Owner's website and tons of info and great advice.
I've had a 1977 Mk3 since new and raced it hard. The balsa problems are usually around the bases of the stanchions on deck if there's lots of cracking and lets the moisture in there. No big issue to fix usually. I had mine gouged out years ago and filled in. Moved the stanchions to the rail mount type and it ends future issues. I get some slight deck noise walking forward, most of it comes from flexing around the bulkhead amidships. What would you expect from any boat 42 years old? Check above the sliding door and you might find a bit of a gap above it. This is from mast compression over time. Simple to fix by slightly jacking it up and beefing up the starboard side bulkhead a bit with a couple of pieces of teak on either side of it.
Sturdy boat that will take a real pounding and sails well for her size!!! I've had the spreader tips in the water a few times with water pouring in down through the companionway. Not that I recommend this! But she'll pop back up and keep going. Of course as long as you don't fill her up too much! I have the atomic 4 gas version so can't advise on the engine. Good luck!!!
wannacat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2016, 08:53   #8
Registered User
 
hamburking's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston Ont Canada
Boat: Looking for my next boat!
Posts: 3,101
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

Hi.

I owned a 1972 C&C 27 mk2, a 1982 C&C 27 mk4 and a 1974 C&C25mk1. I've also inspected and sailed the C&C29 mk1 and C&C 30 mk1. I consider myself an expert on these great old boats.

Lets talk about your issues.

Spider cracks...they all have them, nothing to worry about. Check for softness. If there is a nice "ping" when you tap, its good.

Keel bolts. No way to check without cutting open the keel. The pictures look good. I've seen much worse. In all likelihood they are good. I haven't heard of any failures yet.

Creeks and moans when walking about the deck above and below...get used to it. They boat is going on 40 years old. Wait till you go sailing in a big wind, the boat will pretty much sing as it grunts and groans. I thought the bulkhead tabs were pulling out of the hull once, but it was fine.

You found with with a yanmar once cylinder engine. These are rare on the older models...and an excellent find. A great engine that will last forever when maintained. It may vibrate the hell out of the boat, and drive you crazy, but it won't let you down. Best to have a sea trial and take the rpm up to speed. Watch for the engine "dancing" at resonant rpms and at idle. Also, be sure the controls are good...be sure you can idle, and shift easily into and out of forward and reverse.

Check the prop shaft for drips at the stuffing box.

Here's a BIG one...make sure all the original GATE valves have been replaced with BALL valves...very important...you may not be able to purchase insurance without this. And while down there, check the cockpit drain hoses for cracks and all through hulls for double hose clamps.

Most of these boats that have been maintained are in really decent shape for older boats. They were constructed with a high build quality and that is really shining through now that they are getting old.

If possible, check the prop shaft strut (holding the shaft near the prop). If the boat is in the water, you may need to go for a swim....if it wiggles...big trouble, should be solid. And the shaft should be solid in the cutlass bearing. Replacing the cutlass bearing is a little part, but a big job requiring pulling the prop shaft.

If the boat is on the hard, check the rudder for water. Once water gets in, thats it...new rudder needed eventually, or after one winter here.

The pictures you show all look good. I don't see anything that would stop me from moving forward. However....around here these boats are really common and inexpensive. $7500 is at the high end of the market, and should be justified by that diesel. You are buying a great diesel engine, wrapped in a sailboat...LOL.

And finally, the original SS rigging is well past its best before date. If the standing rigging has not already been replaced, plan on replacing it all. This isn't actually that expensive, just a bother.

Please let us know what happens, and if you have any more questions, I'm happy to help. If you aren't too far from Kingston Ontario, I'd even go have a look for you. Thanks for asking about these great old boats...you made my day.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	AQ6.JPG
Views:	407
Size:	61.7 KB
ID:	133669   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0013.jpg
Views:	264
Size:	316.4 KB
ID:	133670  

Click image for larger version

Name:	qhaul1.jpg
Views:	286
Size:	69.2 KB
ID:	133671   Click image for larger version

Name:	qhaul3.jpg
Views:	383
Size:	59.7 KB
ID:	133672  

hamburking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2016, 09:07   #9
Moderator

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,174
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

For seven and a half, why are you worried?

As Hamburg sez, your are buying the engine (if you want it). The hull and rigging are freebies. A new engine, say a BETA 18, will cost you 15 grand installed.

Moorage will cost you five grand a year, upkeep another three, minimum, so the purchase price is trivial. Just buy the boat if you like her as is. Then sail 'er till she croaks - then assassinate 'er and get another :-)

Count on three grand for disposal.

Great little racers in their time. Cruisers - not so much!

TrentePieds
TrentePieds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2016, 09:24   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 23
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

Haha well thank you for all the great replies, i think my one concern with the purchase price is you are now accumulating all of these moorage etc costs so is it worth it if you just drop a 'lump' in the slip or do you want to ensure the money you spend is on something that is worth paying all of these other costs. I think what i am experiencing is "buyers anxiety" where i've been looking for a long time now and have actually come across something that might be worth purchasing.. and i get stage fright!
jc12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2016, 11:13   #11
Registered User
 
rosatte's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Sidney BC
Boat: Union cutter 33
Posts: 234
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

heres a thought fresh water canadian boat they r in the water 4 months of the yr...how can u go wrong verses a florida boat in water from day one...most owners up here look after their boats winterize them and coverem up or shrinkwrap for winter...a 30 yr ole boat has only seen 10yrs of sailing ...food for thought
rosatte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2016, 14:15   #12
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 9,703
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosatte View Post
..................winterize them and coverem up or shrinkwrap for winter...a 30 yr ole boat has only seen 10yrs of sailing ...food for thought
And a counter concept to that is potential damage from heat and freeze thaw cycles, and the usually the best boats are ones that get used, but NOT abused.

It all comes down to condition, condition, condition, the care of the PO, and, in this case, whether the OP really wants not only that particular boat, but also wants to do the trip. Trips like that are usually once-in-a-lifetime events, I know my recent one was.

Good luck, either way.

Edit: oops, confused this post with the one about Georgian Bay. Same concepts, though.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2016, 20:42   #13
Registered User
 
Pete O Static's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Canada and Caribbean
Boat: Jeanneau 36 and C&C 29 MkII
Posts: 178
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

I have been sailing C&C's for years and currently own a 29MkII. You mentioned that it has a 2 cylinder yanmar? That was never a factory install for the 27. They came with either an Atomic 4 or single cylinder yanmar. Most likely the YSE-8.

The hull is not cored but the deck is and is most likely wet. A boat that age will have had a deck fitting leak at some point. My bet would be around the grab rails. The bedding compounds just don't last that long and when the boat was built, they simply drilled through the core when installing fittings. No epoxy plugs to protect the core. The windows likely leak as well. Look at the teak trim under the windows or the fiberglass liner just inside the window for tell tale tear stains. It looks like they have been replaced once already.

The rudder will likely show elevated moisture readings as will 99% of the other rudders of that vintage in the yard. Don't sweat it unless it is absolutely soaked.

My advice would be to spend the $500 for a qualified survey if you have anxiety. He or she will identify everything that needs attention. All we can do is offer up past experience from similar boats. $7500 may seem like a deal but you could easily spend twice that in sails and engine repairs alone.
Pete O Static is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-10-2016, 21:36   #14
Registered User
 
AKA-None's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lake City MN
Boat: C&C 27 Mk III
Posts: 2,647
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

You don't need to pull the prop shaft to replace the cutlass bearing


Cruisers Sailing Forum va iPhone
__________________
Special knowledge can be a terrible disadvantage if it leads you too far along a path that you cannot explain anymore.
Frank Herbert 'Dune'
AKA-None is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-10-2016, 11:02   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Marina Del Rey, CA
Posts: 350
Re: Advice on sailboat purchase C&C 27 mkii

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA-None View Post
You don't need to pull the prop shaft to replace the cutlass bearing


Cruisers Sailing Forum va iPhone

Still has to haul out?
cpt_757 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
purchase, sail, sailboat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Newbie & Falmouth Gypsy MkII Owner jbhouston Meets & Greets 9 02-01-2022 04:47
Advice on used sailboat purchase price oceanrider Dollars & Cents 17 15-05-2016 13:47
New owner of C&C 35 MKII Seeks Advice!! Young_Salt Monohull Sailboats 2 07-01-2015 10:53
Window frames for C&C 35 mkII Gulf Islander Construction, Maintenance & Refit 2 05-11-2012 06:57
Here I go again II (1974 C&C 35 MKII ) VIPIRATE Monohull Sailboats 0 24-05-2012 10:23

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:16.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.