Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

[YoloSF]

Hello everyone,

I'm about a year and a half away from my goal to circumnavigate on a sailboat. I'm a very experienced dinghy sailor (f18 + lasers primarily), experienced on monohull short distance cruising (coast of Spain), I sail my j92s in sf bay on a semi daily basis and I'm looking to circumnavigate soon. I'm very young, physically active and plan to sail hopefully with my girlfriend and one friend and maybe his girlfriend. Please, skip the comments about "have you lived on a boat before" etc. that's personal and I'm not looking for advice on that at the time. Instead, I'd like to focus more on my choice of boat. Budget is up to $220k, but we don't necessarily have to spend all of it. I have budgeted for day to day and repair expenses, please, no comments on "put 2/3 down on the boat and the rest to improve it, etc." In can you tell yet, I've read many threads on this forum

I think i have it narrowed down to a wauquiez ps40 or ps41. I'm obsessed with light, so it's a must to have plenty of it. Also, this boat has two "queen bed" quarters, which I also like a lot, especially since their fairly equally sized. (I understand that under sail, it's not the ideal layout, but I'm willing to sacrifice that)

But I also like something like a jeanneau 479 or Hallberg-Rassy like is one: http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1982.../United-States

Basically, my requirements are:
38-48ft
$100-220k
1980+
2/3 cabins
Fast - doesn't have to be a race boat, but I don't want to be stuck in light winds without moving either...

No preference on:
Step or full mast (I've read about them, both seem to have their pluses and minuses, I think they balance each other out)

Questions:

- Is something like a jeanneau 479 or similar as bad as people make "plastic boats" seem to be? I understand you can get caught in a storm by surprise, but c'mon, it's 2013, there's weather forecasts so you should be at lest able to keep out of the really bad weather, right?

- Could you help me view the pros cons of each boat and decide where I should focus my search on?

- Any other boats I should consider?


Thoughts and comments about the boat choices and suggestions are welcome and encouraged! I'm actually very excited to read some responses!

Thanks

[Mary Flower]

Originally Posted by YoloSF

...Hallberg-Rassy like is one: 1982 Hallberg-Rassy 42 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Of the three boats you list, the Hallberg-Rassy is the only one I would take offshore.

The Wauquiez pilot house would be positively dangerous in a seaway. Try to imagine keeping your balance in ten foot seas while standing on that ski slope of a cabin top. Also, the shrouds and jib tracks are placed inboard and would make going forward an act the likes of which is not usually seen outside a three ring circus. This boat is just waiting to pitch you overboard.

It is also lacking in sufficient fuel (58 gal) and water tankage (118 gal) to give you enough range for anything but coastal cruising. There are a host of other shortcomings that would cause me concern. The SAD (Sail Area to Displacement ratio) is only 14 which is definitely not in the racer/cruiser category. This boat is seriously underpowered.

I'd suggest you give this one a pass.

Here's the link to a Cruising World 2007 review: Wauquiez Pilot Saloon 41: A Room with a View | Cruising World

[tom1263]

Originally Posted by YoloSF

- Is something like a jeanneau 479 or similar as bad as people make "plastic boats" seem to be? I understand you can get caught in a storm by surprise, but c'mon, it's 2013, there's weather forecasts so you should be at lest able to keep out of the really bad weather, right?

- Could you help me view the pros cons of each boat and decide where I should focus my search on?

First, you're on the right track with a HR.

Second, here is a list of Persons incl. pros and cons after their circumnavigation. All with different boats. Ok original in German, but Google translate helps ...

[RedHerring]

Originally Posted by tom1263

Second, here is a list of Persons incl. pros and cons after their circumnavigation

Several mass production boats there, that owners were apparently happy about.

[tom1263]

Originally Posted by RedHerring

Several mass production boats there, that owners were apparently happy about.

Yes, why not. but the European market is also a little different than in the U.S.

[skipmac]

Regarding which boat, in that price and size range including your other preferences there should be lots of options. The one difficult one is having two, equal cabins. In that size range I have seen two options (not that there aren't others, just the ones I've seen).

Some "plastic production boats" mainly designed for charters so going for max number of bunks with twin aft cabins. These generally just split the back of the boat with a fore and aft bulkhead so you have two side by side cabins of equal size. I have seen Hunters and I think Beneteau and Jeanneau make similar layouts.

The other option would be a center cockpit, aft cabin layout giving double cabins aft and forward. The down side to this layout is the forward double can be pretty bouncy at sea so on passages may have to sleep in the main salon.

Regarding which maker, there would be so many. The HR is certainly a very good option. A few others that come to mind: Kelly Peterson, Amel, Brewer 12.8 or 44, Bristol, Pearson, Tayana, Island Packet. I'm sure I am missing many but a few to start.

Your comment about weather. I pretty much agree with your philosophy but with one exception. Sailing in the trade winds or lower latitudes the odds of getting caught in really bad weather without warning is rare but not the case you get further north or south.

[chuckr]

[QUOTE=YoloSF;1320009]Hello everyone,

Please, skip the comments about "have you lived on a boat before" etc. that's personal and I'm not looking for advice on that at the time.



you may skip over this but i will give it to you anyway -- cruising and sailing are two entirely different things -- we are terrible sailors but have been cruising for 6 years and have circum the caribbean and crossed the atlantic this past may and now in the med - we know a lot of great sailors who just can not cruise - it is a different lifestyle -
out best example is a couple we knew who had a great cailber lrc40 - it was in perfect condition and boy could they sail her - we met them in maine and they wanted us to go with them on a circumnav and we just were not ready -- a couple of years later we and the boat were ready and when we went into the bay islands on honduras they were still there and headed to the usa - they sold the boat and quit - reason was the living aboard and the cruising were not for them -
if you want you gf to go better be damn sure she is up for the hardship of living aboard as it is not for everyone - we have seen a few breakups over that --

as for boats -- we love our jeanneau ds40 -- we would perfer a 42 that would give us a bit more room but without giving away too much in draft -

as for wx -- if you read at all you will find in general you will get about 10% wx that you wish you were anywhere else -- on our crossing we had we should have had a lot of wind behind us but this year the azore hi just did not set in and we had a beat for about 18 stright days and that included 3 days of 25-30 winds as a front over took us and 3 days being caught between a hi and lo pressure system and winds between 26-28k - and we say it coming and did our best to get out of the way

by the way a week before we left 3 boats left in ok wx conditions and a lo over took them and none have been heard from again and one was a 70'

so understand what you are getting into

just our thoughts and opinions
chuck patty and svsoulmates
in La Linea Spain

[Kevin84]

Go to bluewaterboats.org Every boat there (with the exception of the Endeavor 42) are all offshore capable. As far as wanting tons of natural light below decks, bigger portholes=bigger area for the sea to enter your boat. If you still want lots of glass, I strongly suggest storm shutters. Since you're looking at having up to four people on board long term, get a boat with at least 200gal water capacity. And a water maker. Then provision her and put her on a mooring ball, all four of you move on board and see how long you can last before you need to reprovision (also makes sure you can all live in close quarters without killing each other). Out of all the boats you listed, like has been mentioned previously, the ONLY one I would trust offshore is the HR. Good luck.

[MarkJ]

The boats I have been most impressed with as a global cruiser are the Beneteau 473 2 cabin version (ONLY!); Beneteau 50 2000 to 2010 models. The new Jeneaus are selling very well but may be still too expensive as its only the new range that I like.

The 473 2 cabin version has a HUGGE and I mean very substantial lazarette that you can enter from the galley or the cockpit its walk in height! The storage space is quite immense. The boat performs well.

The Beneteau 50: This boat really goes fast. I was passed by one when hard on the wind blowing about 20 knots and I was steaming in a race and this Bene 50 charter boat racing in the division that started 10 minutes after us passed me doing at least 2 knots more than me. He really did leave me in the dust

Try for one with only 2 or 3 cabins, but none of their configurations have the lazarette entry from the galley like the 473.

The Jeaneaus until 2010 were very dark inside. Then they grew a brain and decked the deck with windows and now they are good for a look... btu still are too new to get into your price range.


Mark

[Oogie]

so the only boats that are capable of making a blue water passage are the boats on this list? bluewaterboats.org

[Crimea Cruiser]

Originally Posted by YoloSF

I understand you can get caught in a storm by surprise, but c'mon, it's 2013, there's weather forecasts so you should be at lest able to keep out of the really bad weather, right?


Thanks

Perhaps you have not paid enough attention to weather in recent years or past. Some massive several hundred mile storm fronts have rolled through sections of world in last two years. I hardly doubt you will outrun a storm front travelling at 5 times your hull speed and encompassing a several hundred mile front. It is nice optimism, but good luck with that!

[YoloSF]

Originally Posted by Mary Flower

Of the three boats you list, the Hallberg-Rassy is the only one I would take offshore.

The Wauquiez pilot house would be positively dangerous in a seaway. Try to imagine keeping your balance in ten foot seas while standing on that ski slope of a cabin top. Also, the shrouds and jib tracks are placed inboard and would make going forward an act the likes of which is not usually seen outside a three ring circus. This boat is just waiting to pitch you overboard.

It is also lacking in sufficient fuel (58 gal) and water tankage (118 gal) to give you enough range for anything but coastal cruising. There are a host of other shortcomings that would cause me concern. The SAD (Sail Area to Displacement ratio) is only 14 which is definitely not in the racer/cruiser category. This boat is seriously underpowered.

I'd suggest you give this one a pass.

Here's the link to a Cruising World 2007 review: Wauquiez Pilot Saloon 41: A Room with a View | Cruising World

Pardon me if I sound defensive, this is my favorite boat thus far, so I am... haha. I'm also playing devile's advocate here. You made some very valid points. My counterarguments on the water comment would be a watermaker, which was definitely going to be installed anyways. Fuel... you can always tie up cans for longer crossings, I agree that 225L isn't enough, but it doesn't seem terribly low though from what I've read.

What do you mean by the shrouds and jib tracks being placed inboard? As opposed to where?

What does concern me though is the SAD of 14. Where did you find this? I"m going to have to do a bit more research on this aspect.

Thanks for taking the time to back up your comments!

[YoloSF]

Originally Posted by tom1263

First, you're on the right track with a HR.

Second, here is a list of Persons incl. pros and cons after their circumnavigation. All with different boats. Ok original in German, but Google translate helps ...

This is possibly the best link anyone has ever shared with me! Thanks!

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Crimea Cruiser

Perhaps you have not paid enough attention to weather in recent years or past. Some massive several hundred mile storm fronts have rolled through sections of world in last two years. I hardly doubt you will outrun a storm front travelling at 5 times your hull speed and encompassing a several hundred mile front. It is nice optimism, but good luck with that!

+1

Not to say that need a boat that will survive the perfect storm (and need one to get moving ) - but nonetheless still want to choose a boat you would be happy to be on when the poop does start to arrive, even if not meant to .

I appreciate that OP does not want to be lectured to , on the other hand can't expect to be spoonfed - at the end of the day, folks get to live with own decisions so need to make them based on own knowledge and not on someone else's knowledge and opinions.....they are just guides / pointers (and not all in the right direction! - welcome to the internet ).

[YoloSF]

Originally Posted by Crimea Cruiser

Perhaps you have not paid enough attention to weather in recent years or past. Some massive several hundred mile storm fronts have rolled through sections of world in last two years. I hardly doubt you will outrun a storm front travelling at 5 times your hull speed and encompassing a several hundred mile front. It is nice optimism, but good luck with that!

Perhaps you shouldn't get into a car again. Chances of getting in a car and crashing are TOO DAMN HIGH!