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Old 24-08-2013, 18:22   #61
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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Remember also that boats in the Northeast or Great Lakes are stored for more than half the year. A 20 year old boat in Maine has less than half the wear and tear of a 20 year old boat in Florida. Some of the best bargains are in the NE in the fall, when the owner is facing another winter of storage costs.
On the other hand, we keep hearing about damage done by trapped water freezing and expanding. Also, in my experience, boats left fallow deteriorate at a surprising rate. Not all degradation is use related!

The usage and maintenance history of each individual vessel is the most important factor IMO. Good and bad examples exist in every location.

Isn't this fun???

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Old 24-08-2013, 19:01   #62
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

If there were just two of you, or maybe three, the best bang for your buck would be a Cal 40. But, it doesn't have the interior you want, and is a bit older. Still, they have raced and cruised many hundreds of thousands of ocean miles, and won lots of races, including the Bermuda Race, the Trans-Pac, the Singlehanded-Transpac, etc. etc. ...The first ultralight, and a revolutionary boat in its time, still great. Buy one for $40K, outfit it for another $40 K, and save the rest!
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Old 24-08-2013, 19:24   #63
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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If there were just two of you, or maybe three, the best bang for your buck would be a Cal 40. But, it doesn't have the interior you want, and is a bit older. Still, they have raced and cruised many hundreds of thousands of ocean miles, and won lots of races, including the Bermuda Race, the Trans-Pac, the Singlehanded-Transpac, etc. etc. ...The first ultralight, and a revolutionary boat in its time, still great. Buy one for $40K, outfit it for another $40 K, and save the rest!
Couldn't agree more. I had a Cal 40, downwind and surfing it was fast. When he mentioned his budget the SC 50 was the boat that would beat me on all points of sail and was in his budget. A good Cal 40 is $40K ready for cruising. I spent $16K on mine about 20 years ago and it was ex-race bare, so another $16K for cruising goodies.

This one has some nice interior mods, like the sit down Nav station.
1969 Cal 40 Cruiser - Boats.com

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Old 25-08-2013, 02:49   #64
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
The storm covers on a deck salon boat I delivered were made of half-inch lexan, and bolted over the permanent windows--better than nothing.
If the windows themselves are already 15mm thick lexan, what do these storm covers add?
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Old 25-08-2013, 05:33   #65
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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If the windows themselves are already 15mm thick lexan, what do these storm covers add?
The additional layer of lexan will absorb the brunt of the force of a wave hitting them and transmit only a small portion, if anything, of that force to the window. Think of it as a layered armor system. The first layer detonates the "incoming round" while the second layer stops at "splinters" from entering the cabin.
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Old 25-08-2013, 06:58   #66
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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The additional layer of lexan will absorb the brunt of the force of a wave hitting them and transmit only a small portion, if anything, of that force to the window. Think of it as a layered armor system. The first layer detonates the "incoming round" while the second layer stops at "splinters" from entering the cabin.
Isn't it also true that the storm windows should be significantly larger than the cut out for the actual windows? That way it almost impossible for water to push through into the cabin.

After just replacing the acrylic and re-bedding the dead-lights on my boat, I think I'll be considering storm shudders if i ever venture offshore. There just isn't that much frame holding the windows in place.
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Old 25-08-2013, 08:04   #67
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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Isn't it also true that the storm windows should be significantly larger than the cut out for the actual windows? That way it almost impossible for water to push through into the cabin.

After just replacing the acrylic and re-bedding the dead-lights on my boat, I think I'll be considering storm shudders if i ever venture offshore. There just isn't that much frame holding the windows in place.
Exactly right! The failure is quite often having the whole port assembly, frame and all, shoved through the hull or cabin side and into the interior.

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Old 25-08-2013, 08:37   #68
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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If the windows themselves are already 15mm thick lexan, what do these storm covers add?
If your ports are ocean grade, and if they were installed properly, you do not need storm covers.

Just make sure they are, for many are not.

Still, think about a situation when any piece of equipment gets lose and bangs into any glassed opening on your boat. Might be wise to build something that can be quickly used as an emergency plug.

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Old 25-08-2013, 09:47   #69
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

In talking about going forward, I think the height of your toerail/bulwark is very important. Little 1 inch aluminum rails are designed to break your ankle as your foot slips over the side ( and maybe the rest of you). I have had rails from 1 inch up to 5 inches, and find the higher bulwark is safer and gives you a sense of security. Yes, they keep more water on deck, but should be designed with good drainage in mind. I just looked at the link to the PS40 and when seeing a front opening fridge, my first thought is that the designer has never been to sea, or has let the add men design the interior. It looks like a nice marina boat or weekend sailor, but not a well thought out seaboat. Of course, almost any boat can go almost anywhere, but what looks good at dockside is not always worth a darn at sea. ___Just another opinion. ____Grant.
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Old 25-08-2013, 13:04   #70
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

+1 on the toerail (Bulwarks is better)......of course not as "sexy" or easy to sell at West Marine as Lifejacket, a Harness or a PLB - even if more use than those as prevention (prevention = no cure required). And probably does not look as sleek in the Yacht Brochure either, and adds to the cost for something the Market neither understands nor appreciates.

Whilst I can agree that folks don't need a boat built to withstand the perfect storm, nonetheless I would caution when saying that pretty much any boat can make it RTW (which is clearly true) to bear in mind the audience will not all be in a position to make the same sort of judgements as "you" or have the same knowledge to deal with less than ideal. IME folks who know "stuff" (any subject) tend to discount their knowledge (especially gained over a lifetime!) and over assume what is obvious to others / believe they are starting at a higher point of inherent understanding.

For me reading "don't worry about it" (i.e. when it comes to deck saloon windows) will likely mean something different to someone new to boats........not to say that our actions would be any different!, but likely our reasons would be!, and that might one day be important (e.g. I know that they are (on a specific boat) a weak point - someone else thinks they are all good for the perfect storm).......
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Old 25-08-2013, 13:33   #71
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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So bottom line, proper placement of shrouds and tracks and foredack access is a factor in a safe offshore boats but don't focus too much on one detail and ignore the big picture.
I think you are assuming facts not in evidence. Just because I spoke about one particular aspect of what makes a boat safer for offshore use doesn't mean I'm unaware of a host of others. In my initial post I commented on two aspects of the Wauqiez that jumped out at me. One was the matter of cluttered side decks and the sloping cabin top and the other was what I felt to be less than suitable tankage. The big picture is the sum total of all the details. These two are part of that big picture but, obviously, not the whole.
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Old 25-08-2013, 13:47   #72
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

I had too google up a Wauqiez 40PS!









At 40 foot unless a complete dog to sail then IMO good enuf . Same for if still in good condition (and built half decently - my presumption is will have been, but no personal knowledge).

But, the wide open spaces in the saloon would be a concern - but could live with them. Inboard shrouds not what I am used to, but decent width to the sidedeck, even if little to no toerail. I could live with them....I might want to raise the grab handles on the deck saloon though and maybe even make the lifeline top rail solid. And maybe some netting on the lifelines.

My big concern would be those windows - especially as the saloon sides are mostly windows!.....but am sure with some thought (and some 's) that I could live them - my initial thoughts are getting comfortable that both the windows themselves are good "glass" and that the saloon sides are robust enough rather than adding storm boards (is there anything to fix them to?!).....if one of those windows goes in a gale gonna ship a lot of water, very quickly!

I do like the under cockpit double bed though
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Old 25-08-2013, 14:22   #73
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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I had too google up a Wauqiez 40PS!






While you're in the mood to Google, check out the PS 41. Very different cabin top arrangement. That is the one I referred to in my initial post.

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Old 25-08-2013, 14:24   #74
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The additional layer of lexan will absorb the brunt of the force of a wave hitting them and transmit only a small portion, if anything, of that force to the window. Think of it as a layered armor system. The first layer detonates the "incoming round" while the second layer stops at "splinters" from entering the cabin.
Not so sure about this. Doesnt polycarbonate (lexan falls in this class) transmit shock as a blunt wave - ie it transmits all impacts across its available surface thereby reducing impact load? Which is one of its best qualities in the Dirt World.

I could be totay wrong, and likely am, but this characteristic makes it great as a final resource for bullets and waves but also makes it the worst possible first defender as if it is anywhere near a window as a storm shutter - read less than 20mm in front or worse in contact with the storm wi dows, it will effectively do nothing to protect from a massive wave strike.

In fact I would go as far as to say on a massive strike it could make matters worse?
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Old 25-08-2013, 15:48   #75
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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Not so sure about this. Doesnt polycarbonate (lexan falls in this class) transmit shock as a blunt wave - ie it transmits all impacts across its available surface thereby reducing impact load? Which is one of its best qualities in the Dirt World.

I could be totay wrong, and likely am, but this characteristic makes it great as a final resource for bullets and waves but also makes it the worst possible first defender as if it is anywhere near a window as a storm shutter - read less than 20mm in front or worse in contact with the storm wi dows, it will effectively do nothing to protect from a massive wave strike.

In fact I would go as far as to say on a massive strike it could make matters worse?
My mistake, I should have clarified that I was speaking more in general terms about storm covers. Using lexan is probably a bad example
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