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Old 23-08-2013, 08:53   #16
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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Originally Posted by YoloSF View Post
Pardon me if I sound defensive, this is my favorite boat thus far, so I am... haha. I'm also playing devile's advocate here. You made some very valid points. My counterarguments on the water comment would be a watermaker, which was definitely going to be installed anyways. Fuel... you can always tie up cans for longer crossings, I agree that 225L isn't enough, but it doesn't seem terribly low though from what I've read.

What do you mean by the shrouds and jib tracks being placed inboard? As opposed to where?

What does concern me though is the SAD of 14. Where did you find this? I"m going to have to do a bit more research on this aspect.

Thanks for taking the time to back up your comments!
What happens though when your water maker quits making water and that last storm you were in washed your extra fuel cans overboard? From what you've said,you're going and planning for the best when you should be planning for the worst. You need to have sufficient capacity in fuel and water to cover you for when everything goes to hell UN a handbasket.
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Old 23-08-2013, 08:59   #17
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

I haven't sailed the Wauquiez 40 Pilot Salon, but I've sailed the Wauquiez Centurion 41, and it seems to be in line with what you want in terms of being performance oriented. Good build quality as well. I've charted a Juneau 40, and it wasn't half the boat the Centurion was.
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:01   #18
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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Originally Posted by Kevin84 View Post
What happens though when your water maker quits making water and that last storm you were in washed your extra fuel cans overboard? From what you've said,you're going and planning for the best when you should be planning for the worst. You need to have sufficient capacity in fuel and water to cover you for when everything goes to hell UN a handbasket.
Most likely, I'll have a second watermaker ready to go.

I'm surprised all these critics of mass production boats don't parade around those that have circumnavigated, ask for their autographs, invite them to a large dinner feast, etc. It seems like they are the true heroes of the ocean!

(Sorry, I love adding fuel to the fire sometimes)

Anyways, any more feedback on the Wauquiez PS40/41 specifically? Any other boats I should be considering (I'll be researching the Beneteau 472 2 cabin later)

Thanks all
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:03   #19
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
I haven't sailed the Wauquiez 40 Pilot Salon, but I've sailed the Wauquiez Centurion 41, and it seems to be in line with what you want in terms of being performance oriented. Good build quality as well. I've charted a Juneau 40, and it wasn't half the boat the Centurion was.

Thanks for the feedback. My understanding is the Centurion line is more aligned with Beneteau/Jeanneau while the Pilot Saloon is a bit more robust. I'll have to research that a bit more though...
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:06   #20
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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Originally Posted by Oogie View Post
so the only boats that are capable of making a blue water passage are the boats on this list? bluewaterboats.org
I think if you sailed out of sight of land in any boat except the ones on that list you are certain to die a horrible death, the boat would explode and the world as we know it would end.

Seriously, that website is just the opinion of a small group of people. As we all know, opinions are like anal sphincters, everybody has one. I'm sure that there are plenty of sailors that would argue with some of the boats included on that list and there are certainly dozens of boats that are more than capable of sailing anywhere that are not included.

That web site is a good place to learn about certain boats that are regarded as seaworthy by the authors and to then take that information and decide for yourself how accurate and relevant it will be for your needs.
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:10   #21
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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What happens though when your water maker quits making water
Don't know what others do, but personally I never go far from land without a number of gallon jugs of water stowed away in all the remote nooks and crannies of the boat.


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that last storm you were in washed your extra fuel cans overboard?
You sail?
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:13   #22
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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Originally Posted by YoloSF View Post
Thanks for the feedback. My understanding is the Centurion line is more aligned with Beneteau/Jeanneau while the Pilot Saloon is a bit more robust. I'll have to research that a bit more though...
Beneteau bought Waquiez a few years back. If anything they've copied the designs. The Centurion boats were designed before the takeover, and the PS designs came after.

So, yeah, you may want to do a bit more research. The Centurion 41 will sail circles around the PS 41 in light air.

The other thing you may want to research are budget realities. You've mentioned a few boats that are beyond the range you've advertised unless you start looking at boats more than 25 years old.
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:19   #23
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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so the only boats that are capable of making a blue water passage are the boats on this list? bluewaterboats.org
No. But if you're looking specifically for a bluwater cruiser, it's a good place to start.
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:22   #24
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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Originally Posted by Mary Flower View Post
The Wauquiez pilot house would be positively dangerous in a seaway. Try to imagine keeping your balance in ten foot seas while standing on that ski slope of a cabin top. Also, the shrouds and jib tracks are placed inboard and would make going forward an act the likes of which is not usually seen outside a three ring circus. This boat is just waiting to pitch you overboard.
Don't know enough about the Wauquiez to recommend it our not, but having inboard shrouds and tracks is not something that I would call a deal breaker per se. I put a lot of miles on boats rigged that way never had a problem staying on board.

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It is also lacking in sufficient fuel (58 gal) and water tankage (118 gal) to give you enough range for anything but coastal cruising.
I also cruised for a couple of years on a boat with 75 gallons of water and no watermaker. Spent as much as two months away from a dock and still had water in the tanks. We did keep 20-25 gallons in jugs for drinking and cooking but still had about half that as well.

Regarding fuel, I have heard that there are some cruisers that actually cruise around the world without an engine at all so no fuel as well. Not my cup of tea but if you are properly set up, extra fuel is more of a convenience than a necessity.
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:27   #25
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

The Mahina Expeditions website has lots of good info on different boats. He also consults/ provides support service on boat purchases, and has a lot of offshore experience. Could be $600 well spent when you're thinking about a $200k+ investment.

http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:28   #26
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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Originally Posted by YoloSF View Post
I'm surprised all these critics of mass production boats don't parade around those that have circumnavigated, ask for their autographs, invite them to a large dinner feast, etc. It seems like they are the true heroes of the ocean!
You are buying a boat for the express purpose of circumnavigating. You should buy a boat that is designed for that purpose.

Yes, plenty of people have circumnavigated in Beneteaus...in many cases because it was the boat they already had, or because it was all they could afford. Beneteaus are not designed as blue water passage makers, they are designed as coastal cruisers. That's not a knock on them, it's a fact regarding their design philosophy. As coastal cruisers they have many wonderful attributes. As blue water cruisers, they have some drawbacks; light displacement and shallow hulls, high booms that are difficult to reef, huge cockpits that are a liability in a seaway, etc. Of course you can circle the globe in one, but if you can pick a boat that's designed for that purpose, why not?

I think you are a bit seduced by the volume and cabin layout of modern coastal cruisers. They seem cavernous compared to virtually any blue water boat of comparable length. But that lovely straight galley that is designed for cooking gourmet meals at anchor is going to be downright dangerous when going to weather or even in a big following sea.

You should walk through some of the boats you're looking at with someone who's made a few ocean passages. It will be an educational experience. There are many elements of design that go into a blue water boat other than the simple "quality of construction" metric that you won't notice for the simple fact that you don't know to look.
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:31   #27
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Don't know enough about the Wauquiez to recommend it our not, but having inboard shrouds and tracks is not something that I would call a deal breaker per se. I put a lot of miles on boats rigged that way never had a problem staying on board.



I also cruised for a couple of years on a boat with 75 gallons of water and no watermaker. Spent as much as two months away from a dock and still had water in the tanks. We did keep 20-25 gallons in jugs for drinking and cooking but still had about half that as well.

Regarding fuel, I have heard that there are some cruisers that actually cruise around the world without an engine at all so no fuel as well. Not my cup of tea but if you are properly set up, extra fuel is more of a convenience than a necessity.
The only comment I would make is, he's planning on having 4 people on board. A 100 gallon tank is only enough water for 50 days if hey only use a 1/2 gal per person per day.. That's not much of a buffer. Esp if you use more than that.
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:37   #28
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

Maybe think outside the cruising box and go with Bill Lee's "Fast is Fun" principal. Back in the day when I thought my Cal 40 was about the fastest boat out there I came across a family in the Sea of Cortez cruising on their Santa Cruz 50. On every point of sail that SC 50 was faster than me.

Just a thought. they run around $100K USD and are probably the fastest cruising boat per dollar spent. Here is Hal Roth's old boat "Sebago" for sale in Long Beach. A veteran of BOC singlehanded circumnavigations. 1986 . Santa Cruz 50' Custom - Boats.com
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:52   #29
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Do yourself a favour and don't fall into the trap of the over-read and under-circumnavigated crowd that will tell you to buy a boat for the worst possible event. You will end up in a steel hull with no windows and a compression door for a hatch.

You will have your own preferences for interior layout, engine size to boat weight, mast height to boat length, etc. go with what makes you happy. The manufacturers are really not that important I'm sorry to say, especially if you are buying a boat that is less than 10-15 years old. There are a lot of myths about the differences in how tabs are bed in, shroud plates, etc. take this with a grain of salt - all these things can be sorted out in a survey anyway.

Look for a boat that sails like you want to sail, has an interior layout that you can live with and has the supplies and price that meet your budget. I know it's fun to post a thread on a forum like this and interact with the community, but it will only really get you so far. Start visiting boats for sale in your area in your price range and bearish to your needs to start sticking your nose in and see what's really going on.

You mention your are really young - use this as a tool. Find a boat at you kinda like and call the owner for a visit and maybe test sail. Be honest that you aren't going to buy this boat but need to learn. Sailors love to talk about their boats and experience - you will learn loads this way and save yourself some serious grief later on.

There is ALOT more to buying a used boat than just finding one that looks like what you want.

You will also spend a huge amount of money on any boat you buy - that is the curse of cruising boats so take all your plans and budgets and revise them. Best thing you can do is give a trusted friend who has a level head control of your budget and final decision - this is your first big boat and no matt how smart you think you are one of these boats will seduce you and you need someone to call "stop" as well.

Good luck - the first big boat buy is usually a big learning experience - maybe we should start a new thread on first boat purchase regrets.....
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Old 23-08-2013, 09:53   #30
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
You are buying a boat for the express purpose of circumnavigating. You should buy a boat that is designed for that purpose.

Yes, plenty of people have circumnavigated in Beneteaus...in many cases because it was the boat they already had, or because it was all they could afford. Beneteaus are not designed as blue water passage makers, they are designed as coastal cruisers. That's not a knock on them, it's a fact regarding their design philosophy. As coastal cruisers they have many wonderful attributes. As blue water cruisers, they have some drawbacks; light displacement and shallow hulls, high booms that are difficult to reef, huge cockpits that are a liability in a seaway, etc. Of course you can circle the globe in one, but if you can pick a boat that's designed for that purpose, why not?

I think you are a bit seduced by the volume and cabin layout of modern coastal cruisers. They seem cavernous compared to virtually any blue water boat of comparable length. But that lovely straight galley that is designed for cooking gourmet meals at anchor is going to be downright dangerous when going to weather or even in a big following sea.

You should walk through some of the boats you're looking at with someone who's made a few ocean passages. It will be an educational experience.
That's vintage design philosophy from an era when a waterline of 34' was considered huge for cruising boats. But look at the difference between LWL on a Valiant 40 (34') and the Beneteau 473 (43' 10")

Given the choice between circumnavigating in either of those two boats, I'd choose the Beneteau in a heartbeat. A substantially larger boat is going to handle seas substantially better. It will be far more comfortable in a seaway, and will make passages shorter. More room for the type of gear one needs on a circumnavigation, such as bicycles, and a lot more liveable at anchor.
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