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Old 02-09-2013, 15:22   #166
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Dashew used to design houses. , I didn't know that !!!!!

Dave
C'mon, Dave!

;-)

I did not say that either.

But as you walk the decks of some very well marketed boats, you will see things only Russian engineers in a mad dash could design.

I can understand poor placement of components in a small craft where space is at premium; but why hide valves with their led controls and pressure gauges fore of a 5 ft tall lifting hydraulic bow thruster? In the narrowest part of the boat ... and with all controls facing fore???

So, you know, I have seen many, I have my opinions.

There are some fine big boats designed by sailors for sailors (say Dashew's), and there are many big name, expensive, very well marketed boats designed by idiots.

b.
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Old 02-09-2013, 15:33   #167
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

The majority of French boats that have arrived in Puerto Montt from the south in the last 12 months have been Ovnis. Yep.... like this one.... Itaparica, Part I — Yacht Mollymawk — The cruising log of the good ship Mollymawk

I'm not sure how this fits with the long keel/fin keel or spade rudder or skeg debate.

However it is my considered opinion that the voyage from the Atlantic side down the Argentine coast to the Beagle can be far harder than the crossing from New Zealand to Puerto Montt involving as it can some serious windward work.... and yes I have done both....

Mind you it can be a doddle at times as well.... the pic is Staten Island to port in mid October.
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Old 02-09-2013, 19:33   #168
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

The size of side decks is not always directly related to the size of the boat. I had a VanDestadt 37 foot sailboat for a couple of years, and it had wide clear side decks, and high bulwerks. It had outboard shrouds, and was a very comfortable boat to go fore and aft at sea. Lots of other problems, but they were from the builder, not the designer. My next boat was a Peterson 44 which I truley loved, but the side decks were not as clear and as well layed out as the 37 foot VanDestadt. Just a little thing like the ports had a spigot( I think that is the proper term) that stuck out about a half inch, and in the 8 years I owned the boat, I had several broken little toes to prove that was not a good idea. A great boat, but one little detail that could cause a problem. The overall almost always come down to a collection of the little things. _____Grant.
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:00   #169
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

Plenty of room on the side decks of my 38ft Baltic too.


Onno
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:38   #170
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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I have seen more small boats that were neatly laid out than big ones.

I think many big boat designers are simply house designers that got unemployed and had to pitch for other markets.

b.
Big boats from Oyster and Swan I've been on were beautifully laid out!

Thing I liked best about the deck layout on the big (90') Swan I spent a couple of weeks on was separate cockpits for working and lounging.

Biggest drawback of deck layout of my boat is that you need to get all around the whole cockpit to sail the boat, since you've got two electric winches and a multitude of lines and clutches on the coaming, four more winches along the sides of the cockpit, and two more winches and the traveller at the aft end of the cockpit. I'm always stepping on my guests, and sometimes even have to send them below!
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Old 03-09-2013, 18:51   #171
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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I believe you've got the cart before the horse. First, based on his offshore experience, Walt concluded that outboard shrouds were safer and then he designed his boats to include them.
Pretty funny stuff. People here get so defensive when they get called on something that they forget how to read. Who said anything about how Shannon formed his views about proper shroud location, or about how the chronology of the development of those views might relate to his boat building? OF COURSE he decided that outboard shrouds were better before he built his boats. That would be why he built his boats that way. And having built his boats the way he did, it aint surprising that he would defend particular design choices. And designers who place the shrouds inboard, do so because they came to believe the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, and would no doubt defend those choices. My point was that designers who design particular sorts of boats, are not likely to be objective sources of information regarding the particular advantages AND disadvantages of their own design choices. They have a vested interest. I'm much more likely to lend credence to real world reports from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
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Old 03-09-2013, 22:00   #172
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

I cant resist this!!!! REAL WORLD REPORT. Only based on some 30K miles, and a very opinionated mind. First boat, very narrow decks (hell the boat was only 7.5 feet wide) chainplates (actually SS Ubolts) just inside the nice 3 inch bulwerk, and twin whisker poles on deck. Pretty clumsy going forward in the little space that there was. Next boat, much wider decks, and chainplates welded to the inside of the nice 4 inch bulwerks. Very easy going forward in bad weather. That was a 37 foot vandestadt steel boat. Next boat 44 foot Peterson, decks that I think were about the same width or maybe a little narrower than the 37, but chainplates that intruded into the walkway, and stantion bases that could be toe grabbers, and the spigots that I already said caused a few broken toes. It was not as easy going forward as the smaller boat. If I were a designer (which I am not) I would go with the lowers going to the side of the coachroof, and the uppers going to the rail. I have delivered boats of most shroud configurations, and you get used to what you have to deal with, but as most owners do, you defend what you have on your own boat because you have gotten used to it. Just another opinion. ____Grant.
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Old 04-09-2013, 00:21   #173
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Re: Advice on circumnavigation vessel

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Pretty funny stuff. People here get so defensive when they get called on something that they forget how to read. Who said anything about how Shannon formed his views about proper shroud location, or about how the chronology of the development of those views might relate to his boat building? OF COURSE he decided that outboard shrouds were better before he built his boats. That would be why he built his boats that way. And having built his boats the way he did, it aint surprising that he would defend particular design choices. And designers who place the shrouds inboard, do so because they came to believe the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, and would no doubt defend those choices. My point was that designers who design particular sorts of boats, are not likely to be objective sources of information regarding the particular advantages AND disadvantages of their own design choices. They have a vested interest. I'm much more likely to lend credence to real world reports from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
Even funnier stuff. I always get a chuckle when someone finds reason to quibble about something of little importance and then spends hours explaining why he quibbles.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:51   #174
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

Yep.

We all get a bit too edgy at times. It might be the time of the year: sailing season's end nearing, fewer sun-hours, back to the cubicle ...

;-)

b.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:13   #175
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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Yep.

We all get a bit too edgy at times. It might be the time of the year: sailing season's end nearing, fewer sun-hours, back to the cubicle ...

;-)

b.
The day of the year that I hate most is the day that DST ends. A complete bummer.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:13   #176
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Yep.

We all get a bit too edgy at times. It might be the time of the year: sailing season's end nearing, fewer sun-hours, back to the cubicle ...

;-)

b.
Ending? You must be sailing in the wrong part of the world. In Florida the best sailing is just about to start.

Of course, for me, it would be a lot better if my boat was in the water.
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Old 04-09-2013, 16:21   #177
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

Hmmm... nobody has mentioned a Hunter HC50. How come?

Also, I'd like to add another restriction, how about only boats with a PHRF under 100?
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Old 04-09-2013, 18:44   #178
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

Actually, I don't mind the end of DST, some of my best sails have been during the Fall season at night. The sky is clear, the air is crisp, the bay is still warm enough to make for pleasant, comfortable sailing, with a steady breeze.
Then the moon comes out and the water sparkles silver and all is right with the world.
It's why I haul my boat at the end of the season already looking forward to the next sail.......
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:43   #179
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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Actually, I don't mind the end of DST, some of my best sails have been during the Fall season at night. The sky is clear, the air is crisp, the bay is still warm enough to make for pleasant, comfortable sailing, with a steady breeze.
Then the moon comes out and the water sparkles silver and all is right with the world.
It's why I haul my boat at the end of the season already looking forward to the next sail.......
I like long walks on the beach.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:09   #180
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Re: Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

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Hmmm... nobody has mentioned a Hunter HC50. How come?
It seemed out of your size and price range. Very fast, very complicated boat with water ballast and all.

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Also, I'd like to add another restriction, how about only boats with a PHRF under 100?
That is probably going to be a challenge given your other requirements. Just look at the PHRF database. In your size and price range, for a comfortable cruiser with (most) of the features you want, with that performance, it's a a pretty select list.
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