advice on a project boat purchase...

[Cheechako]

Yeah, good point. Most the criticism on this board is meant with good intent.... and not directed at the poster personally.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by vtcapo

Curmudgeon,
The Berumda 40 was my dream boat but the price puts it out of reach for most middle class buyers even in this market. However, I almost had a poor mans Bermuda 40 until my wife went nuts and killed the sale. It was a Morgan 41 Aft cockpit center board sloop. See link:

Last year I saw I B-40 in Annapolis MD that needed major work. The were asking 75K and I bet you could have bought it for 50K. Fix it up, and it's worth 200K, plus it sails well and is the prettiest boat in any harbor.

If you can't find a B-40, look for a Hinckley Pilot 35. And if you are willing to deal with a wood boat, there's this: 1956 Hinckley Owens Hinckley Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I have no affiliation with Hinckley and I don't own one. But the name is worth $$$ if the boat is in good condition.

One of Ted Hood's 40 ft "first generation" centerboarders would be a great project boat. But that boat in perfect condition is worth 80K, not 200K.

[DSDman]

You guys are making me feel bad!

[Zonker]

Point is - do you want a boat that is ready for sailing and which needs some make-up or do you want a boat which really requires a refit before you can put it on the water.

Latter could end up as a never ending story.

First option is my choice - (for a project boat you can get a huge discount especially if the owner gave up) - you can go for (test-) sailing, pimp it up according to available cash and make it ready for the long journey.

[vtcapo]

Allio I hope you are listening. I wish I had this forum back in the day. It may have saved me years of grief and money. But I have a tendency to buy on impulse. So young and stupid or should I say youthful ignormance probably would have ruled the day anyway.

Curmudgeion, you should know better than to offer up a WOOD BOAT for a first do it yourself project. If Allio isn't a ships carpenter I would bet that endeavor would wind up as a failed project. I know they are pretty because I am a sucker for vintage boats. I made that mistake with my first boat a 1950 Herreshoff designed 6-meter sloop. What we (my brother and I) thought was going to be a few weeks in the yard turned out to be 5 years. STAY AWAY FROM WOOD.

Right now I have two project boats sitting in the driveway. A Seawind 31 that will cost more to complete than buying a comparable boat that sails in todays market and a 1954 Lyman 18' WOOD runabout. Did I say WOOD. Dumb ass did it again.

RT
PS I got tired of waiting to sail and bought a Slocum 37 that I am hiding from my wife at a friends dock figuring out a way to surprise her without her serving me papers. Take the advice. Do it right the first time and what ever you do STAY AWAY FROM WOOD.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by vtcapo

Allio I hope you are listening. I wish I had this forum back in the day. It may have saved me years of grief and money. But I have a tendency to buy on impulse. So young and stupid or should I say youthful ignormance probably would have ruled the day anyway.

Curmudgeion, you should know better than to offer up a WOOD BOAT for a first do it yourself project. If Allio isn't a ships carpenter I would bet that endeavor would wind up as a failed project. I know they are pretty because I am a sucker for vintage boats. I made that mistake with my first boat a 1950 Herreshoff designed 6-meter sloop. What we (my brother and I) thought was going to be a few weeks in the yard turned out to be 5 years. STAY AWAY FROM WOOD.

Right now I have two project boats sitting in the driveway. A Seawind 31 that will cost more to complete than buying a comparable boat that sails in todays market and a 1954 Lyman 18' WOOD runabout. Did I say WOOD. Dumb ass did it again.

RT
PS I got tired of waiting to sail and bought a Slocum 37 that I am hiding from my wife at a friends dock figuring out a way to surprise her without her serving me papers. Take the advice. Do it right the first time and what ever you do STAY AWAY FROM WOOD.

[Celestialsailor]

One of two things happened here...Either Allio didn't want to heed our advice or we scared him off and he's looking at RV's now.

[Curmudgeon]

Wwll, I prefaced my comments with "...Well, if you are willing to deal with a wood boat..." I have no idea what skills Allio has. If he's good at carpentry, a wood boat might work for him. And if he's good with epoxy, he can cover up the wood.

[Geoduck]

I'm sure glad you guys are afraid of wood boats - that leaves me more to drool over! Ya gotta love it for sure!
I just bought some teak to rebuild my fife rails and it only cost $35 a board foot - a board foot is 12''x12''x1''. Go figure!
Like I said- Ya gotta love it and it helps to be mentally deranged!

[SkiprJohn]

One of the things that I've noticed about folks who are new on this forum and to boating is that if they have their minds made up before they post with their ideas then they won't pay attention to what is said and won't post again.

If they truly are looking for advice then they'll be back with comments and more questions.

I was once very naive about how long and hard a project boat might be to repair. I said that the reason so many folks have taken so long is that they just didn't know as much about stuff as I do or won't work as hard as I will. The truth is I fell into the same trap by having too many projects and am trying to help people stay out of it.

I admire greatly those who have taken on projects and completed them. You truly have a gift and can stay focused enough to carry your projects through.

kind regards,

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

One of the things that I've noticed about folks who are new on this forum and to boating is that if they have their minds made up before they post with their ideas then they won't pay attention to what is said and won't post again.

Kind of funny how many people do that, isn't it? And it's not just newbies. I mean, we constantly get people on here who ask a question, but after a few posts you realize that they didn't really have any question. They had their mind already firmly made up, and were just hoping to get some validation for the decision they had already made. And, of course, they often get quite defensive and even angry when people actually answer the question they asked, and it isn't the answer that they wanted to hear.

Of course the REALLY funny ones are the people who think they can control the responses that they get. You know, like, "Here's my question, but I don't want any answers like this, and I don't want any answers like that, I only want responses from people who can tell me..." Silly people. You ask a question, you're going to get the answers that you get. Some will be on topic, some will be off topic, some will be dead on but not what you were hoping for. That's just the way it works with a public forum, and you can't change it by telling people what sort of answer you want.

[Allio]

I'm back!!! I got divorced from my internet for a week (broken equipment).

Reading through all the posts a couple of things are becoming evident....

(i) Buying and refitting a boat is not sailing. If ones goal is to get into sailing for sailings sake then go sailing. Buy a boat in working condition or needing as little work as possible will ensure you get a better deal.

(ii) Be aware of the failure rate of the DREAM. Evidenced by the volume of failed projects abandoned in boat yards.

(iii) Be aware of the financial costs (and how to triple the estimated costs!)

(iv) be aware of volume of labour involved (and how to triple that estimate too!)

My motivations for asking the original question were...

Having trolled through the colossal work on this forum re how to cruise on $500 a month, a couple of aspects of multi-year RTW cruising became evident. Firstly, if one is to be successful in that endeavour, a nuts and bolts appreciation of your boat is essential. The poster in that particular epic advocated, pre departure, rebedding all through hulls to guarantee water tightness. Some discussion was given to the merits of replacing keel bolts. A list of other pre departure works was listed. The poster was adamant that one should undertake this work personally to be able to self certify the integrity of the vessel and be able to be confident in ones personal ability to attempt all repairs personally in out of the way moorings that would otherwise prove to be prohibitively expensive. The abstract goal was complete self sufficiency once away from the home port.

I'm not against paying someone for a quality product and then getting on and using said product. However, unless I am purchasing that product brand spanking new, you're then subject to whatever anyone has hidden under the floorboards/behind that lick of paint. The consensus from the other topic (and from what I'm reading about boating in general) is that nobody can tell you what a second hand boat is actually worth. Even a surveyors appraisal is not going to reveal all the facts.

SOOOOOooooooo....... going back to my OP.

I have access to the facilities and tools to have a go at a project. My plan is for a three to seven year (i'm 33 now) departure point (for a multi year stint). In that time I will have to learn how to sail in all relevant conditions (and believe me I plan on doing a lot of sailing!) and then equip myself for the adventure (float a boat and all necessary equipment).

As an adventurer, blue water is my goal. Not day tripping or weekending close to shore.

Another motivation originally from a personal point of view was, having been away from the nest for quite a few years, and my father turning 70 this year and still being in relatively good health (and being a man who loves all things marine, and quite a handy handyman!), I was also attracted to the idea of us tackling a project together over the next three to five years as a way to renew our relationship.

Now I am becoming fully aware of the opinion (and thanks all!) that before one even looks at a project, one should get out there and sail everything you can get your hands on before settling into a project that you know you'll enjoy. There's no point just grabbing a project and hoping you'll be happy with the way she sails 7 years down the line not being intimately familiar with that particular boat pre purchase... If you're not sure you'll like the sailing characteristics of the boat down the line you might end up with a very pretty and well intentioned disappointment....

So cheers for all the advice. I think the entire concept will have to be revisited down the line (after I have a few years of sailing/crewing under the belt). I may buy a 'ready to go' smaller craft (read 24-27ft) for my formative years i.e. years 1-4 of my plan, and leave the project to somewhere down the line. A man must have a dream after all .

Allio

[Zonker]

Good luck !

You have 7 years to put up a plan how you will finance the trip. Everything else will be simple ... :-)

[David_Old_Jersey]

Cheers for coming back It helps the next guy (there is always a next one!).....and your thoughts also help others (whether they pay any attention is another matter! - the irony probably being that on a boat project you do need to be someone who is willing to ignore well intentioned advice!).

But from your comments so far, you seem as well placed as any to give it a go.

With a 7 year lead time then I would consider a few years "simply messing around in boats" (ideally also your own) as time and money well spent towards saving both for the later "project"......plus it's fun . and being in "the game" means you are well placed to have eyes and ears open for projects - both potentially yours and others (just to learn from).

[settingsun]

An amazing thread so far...

I think bonding with your dad on a project boat is a fantastic idea...

But when you decide to start cruising, remember to shift gears out of boat project mode and into cruising mode.

From what I've seen of cruisers and cruising, it is really easy with project boats and boat projects to let them dominate the cruise so that the sailing and traveling aspect is lost. Cruising becomes a search for boat parts in foreign ports that don't sell them, and the magic of travel is lost to long days buried in the bilge.

So when you decide it's time to start cruising, draw the line on the boat projects, accept what the boat is, don't try to make it more than that, and enjoy the cruise.