Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-01-2016, 01:17   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Auckland, New Zealand.
Boat: Bavaria 49 Nikka
Posts: 89
Re: adding a bow sprit....

I'm with the Ham; splash it and go sailing. You'll learn more about the ship sailing than we can tell you.
__________________

__________________
Kiwi. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2016, 02:03   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Boat: Passage 24/30 Cutter
Posts: 460
Re: adding a bow sprit....

TANZER 28
OK, I intended to include my response to both rudder and bowsprit inquiry in one post but, having considered it to be too long, I shall do it in two posts. Sorry for the lengthy reply.
You’ve mentioned a couple of items here I would like to comment on, starting with the simplest . . . that being the rudder. Your Tanzer 28 uses a transom hung blade with a definite aft sweep the deeper it goes . . . I have owned two sailboats having similar style rudders. The first was a 20’ Cygnus day-sailer while the other was a 24’ C&C International Shark. Both of these boats were designed by internationally known George Hinterhoeller N.A. who also built the originals. Both boats were later built by other manufacturers, eg: The Cygnus by Clark-craft, and the Shark by C&C although in later years, other manufacturers also purchased the building rights. The early Sharks and Cygnus had ‘trailing’ rudders similar to the Tanzer but more vertical. Sometime after C&C began manufacturing the Shark, a ‘balanced’ rudder made its appearance which I will describe shortly.
The Cygnus, (my very first sailboat) exhibited weather helm from day one. Moving the mast fore or aft on its step had little effect neither did tuning the mast with a 9” rake. Both of these adjustments change the C of E of the sails.
About a year or two later I happened across the new balanced rudder on a new Shark. The two vessels (Cygnus & Shark) had similar planing hulls and I wondered if the Cygnus might benefit from a balanced rudder. After studying the design, I took patterns and downsized it to reflect similar dimensions of the original Cygnus blade; I then made a temporary trial rudder for the Cygnus, widening it below the hull and the effects were dramatic. The weather helm disappeared and it became far easier to steer. Almost fingertip.
What is a balanced rudder you ask? Without the aid of a picture, I will describe it to the best of my ability as follows: Your rudder, like my Cygnus original, has a vertical leading edge, AFT of the centreline of the Pintle/Gudgeon pivot point . . . I will refer to it as an ‘un-balanced’ rudder . . . whereas the leading edge of the newer design below the hull was about 2-1/2” FORWARD of the centreline of the Pintle/Gudgeon pivot point, making it a balanced rudder. This design allows water pressure to act on the leading edge, applying pressure opposite to that on the trailing edge, easing the steering effort.
I would suggest you make up a similar rudder to try on your Tanzer. You can make it out of scrap wood to see if it has the desired effect. If so, then go ahead and build a nice one out of some nice expensive African Mahogany . . . I trust this is a clear enough description for you. If not, let me know and I’ll see if I can create a drawing for clarity
__________________

__________________
Sailorbob8599 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2016, 02:19   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Boat: Passage 24/30 Cutter
Posts: 460
Re: adding a bow sprit.... re: Tanzer 28

Ok, item 2 . . . Bowsprit . . . Let me start by saying my current boat is a Passage 24’, full keel, heavy displacement (for its size) pocket cruiser, designed originally by Tom Gillmer N.A. I believe it derives its origin from that of a Falmouth Cutter. His first boat was called ‘Blue Moon’ which has been featured in Wooden Boat magazine, and also in Good Old Boat as well as a 27' version. Try Google. This boat was modified further by Tom Gillmer as a cruising boat with a doghouse type of deck-house and sported a very short bowsprit eg: about 15” ahead of the point of the bow. It was designed as a cutter rig. Both the forestay and inner stay terminated at the same point on the tang fitting at the front end of this short bowsprit. The downside of this design results in a narrowing of the two stays toward the deck creating difficulty of tacking the forward jib through the stays.
The boat was modified yet again by… Graham Shannon N.A, who extended the dog-house to a full length raised coach house, providing 6’ 2” standing headroom throughout the length of the cabin, giving the accommodation of a much larger boat eg: 30’ . . . he also redesigned it to a high aspect ratio rig using a 33’ stick which, in my opinion is best suited to a race boat . . . which this boat is NOT.
In building my boat from a bare hull, I elected to return it to a Cutter Rig by installing a 30’ mast salvaged from an Albin Vega 27, having similar specs to suit this boat and rig. I also lengthened the bow sprit to 30” ahead of the point of the bow at deck level (this boat has 9 – 10” bulwarks at the forward end) . . . so in reality it is about 24” ahead of the teak bow cap-rail.
The fore-stay is terminated at the end of the S.S. bow-sprit, while the new inner stay terminates at the traditional position on the forward point of the deck. This arrangement provides a 24” parallel space between the two stays for ease of tacking the Yankee. I should mention I added a pair of back stays from the point of attachment of the inner stay up the mast, and a quick release mechanism at the deck allowing me to pull it back to the mast when flying a huge royal blue Drifter Jib . . . which we prefer instead of a Spinnaker.
Something to consider when taking a mast from another vessel is, determining the “Moments of Inertia” . . . which sounds pretty technical but is basically all about mast “stiffness” . . . enabling you to determine they meet the spec for your boat and rig. I’m basically a ‘backyard’ builder having no formal training other than hands-on sailing experience. Knowing my short comings, I purchased and studied many books on the subject of boat building. I found the ones that explained mast, rigging and sail plan information both clearly, and in a manner I was able to comprehend was “Skene’s elements of Yacht Design” by Francis S. Kinney and “The Complete Rigger’s Apprentice” by Brion Toss … who kindly autographed my book at his Port Townsend WA shop.
Another point to keep in mind is the C of E of the entire sail plan . . . also found in these books. If you have the Sail plan C of E for the Tanzer, you can make a scaled drawing of your new plan and compare for any change in the sail plan C of E . . . all this information is available in the two books I have mentioned.
As for my new Bowsprit, yes, I constructed it from stainless steel pipe, with tangs and brackets to accommodate not only the Jib stay and an Alado Furler, but also mounting flanges to the hull, a tang for a ½” S.S. rod bobstay, Flanges for both Pulpit and trail-board nameplates port and starboard, plus two bronze rollers for twin anchors.

I may have forgotten some items but the learned ones on this forum will be quick to bring it to your attention. Also, I might be able to produce some photos if only I knew how to do that. I'll have to see if there are instructions for doing so.
__________________
Sailorbob8599 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2016, 03:40   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Boat: Tanzer 28
Posts: 11
Re: adding a bow sprit....

This is the discussion I was hoping for.... The wrecked Tanzer has the updated rudder on it. The past owner said he paid an outfit a $1000 for it. It was supposedly glassed over, with aluminum framing.... but it's just a piece of carved solid white pine made from 2 x 18 board.... but he claimed it made a great improvement. I think I will refinish it, make it ready to use, and try it out mid season. I really do appreciate the chat over this.
__________________
Farmr Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2016, 15:14   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Boat: Samson 36 Seashell
Posts: 16
Re: Adding a bow sprit....

I added a 5-foot bowsprit to my 36' Samson ketch, which had bad weather helm. The added sail forward corrected the problem, and added sail area and speed.


I have decommissioned the boat and have the bowsprit, its hardware and rigging for sale.
__________________
Larry Chamblee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2016, 16:14   #21
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,334
Re: Adding a bow sprit....

The Old Bill Garden designed Rawson 30 has pretty dominant weather helm. many add a sprit to those, albeit only 2-3 ft. It's not as much a science as some would think.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 14:21   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Germany
Boat: 2ft wide dreaming chair
Posts: 311
Re: adding a bow sprit.... re: Tanzer 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599 View Post
I might be able to produce some photos if only I knew how to do that. I'll have to see if there are instructions for doing so.
i'd love to see some pictures.
it's really simple to, just copy and paste with some text
__________________
Simonsays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 17:56   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Boat: Passage 24/30 Cutter
Posts: 460
Re: adding a bow sprit.... re: Tanzer 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonsays View Post
i'd love to see some pictures.
it's really simple to, just copy and paste with some text
Just copy & paste you say ... I think I can handle that, I'll see what I can do.
__________________
Sailorbob8599 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2016, 12:20   #24
Registered User
 
nicholson31's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Boat: Camper Nicholson 31
Posts: 196
Re: Adding a bow sprit....

Have you thought of going with an inner stay instead, if room, and just adding the bowsprit and roller for the anchor?
__________________
nicholson31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2016, 03:24   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Germany
Boat: 2ft wide dreaming chair
Posts: 311
Re: Adding a bow sprit....

trying to post some pictures Bob sent me, i know i have posted pics before but this time the forum keeps telling em to shorten my message?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599
#1 shows the bowsprit when first bolted on to the hull; . . . #2 is the Boom-kin attached to the transom. This was taken the day of launching the boat; . . . #3 This is the actual launching, but it also provides a good view of the Bowsprit, complete with teak platform.
#4 Windlass installation and view of Bowsprit backing plates on forward gunn’l; . . . #5 Bowsprit flange plate and chain-plates support bunk; . . . #6 Close-up of chain-plates;
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Passage 24 002.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	445.7 KB
ID:	116690   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0035.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	425.8 KB
ID:	116691  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0050 (00000002).jpg
Views:	49
Size:	418.9 KB
ID:	116692   Click image for larger version

Name:	Windlass.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	431.2 KB
ID:	116693  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Passage 24 003.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	428.8 KB
ID:	116694   Click image for larger version

Name:	Passage 24 004.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	407.9 KB
ID:	116695  

__________________
Simonsays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2016, 03:25   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Germany
Boat: 2ft wide dreaming chair
Posts: 311
Re: Adding a bow sprit....

#7 Maiden-sail shakedown.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0210 (3).jpg
Views:	52
Size:	41.5 KB
ID:	116696  
__________________

__________________
Simonsays is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CT 41 Bow Sprit David Halloran Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 10-02-2013 20:01
Mounting anchor on bow sprit? hoppy Anchoring & Mooring 2 21-02-2012 15:59
Adding an Anchor Sprit Billie Anchoring & Mooring 4 07-09-2011 01:28
Fixed Bow Sprit hoppy Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 3 19-05-2011 16:15
ADDING ABOW SPRIT Bpage Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 20 06-07-2008 14:15



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.