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Old 06-03-2016, 15:05   #76
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Re: Acapulco 40

Hi, Yachtbuilder

I have tendered an offer on Janine here in Maine last week, pending survey. I spoke to a local surveyor, who, serindipitously, told me he had surveyed that boat a year or so ago. He obviously was not at liberty to tell me the details about his previous work, until I have permission from the person who paid for the survey, but he did allude to water intrusion in the hull rudder.

My question is, were these boats built with cored hull and decks, or were they build out of solid glass. That late- 70's -early 80's was a time of transition between the two building styles, and i'm curious as to which method you used. Also, are there any other weak points about the boats construction that have become apparent over the years that I should know about?

Thanks in advance...

Scott
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Old 06-03-2016, 16:09   #77
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Re: Acapulco 40

Hi Scott,

Congratulations! I hope that works out well for you. I never made cored hull boats. The hull is a solid layup of 1 1/2oz. mat and 24oz. woven roving and the deck has 1/2" marine plywood core in all the proper horizontal places. I believe we used 1" plywood core in the cockpit sole.

There were no "weak" or potential structural issues in these boats whatsoever. The rudder stock was solid 316 stainless shafting with a 1/4" plate welded to it for the rudder backbone. The rest of the rudder should be solid glass with no foam, etc. All stainless fabrications below the waterline were 316 stainless and were stress-relieved (in the case of the bobstay fitting and rudder gudgeon).

As I recall this boat was built around the time I sold my business to a partner and sailed mine to Hawaii, where we stayed. For that reason I am unsure if any changes were made during construction or not. What I can tell you is that it was not sold as a completed boat, but as a partially completed package for owner finishing (much like Westsail did to owner/builders). In fact, the people who I contracted my laminating to were the same people that did all of Westsail's laminating until they moved their operation out of California. That company was Crystaliner and they were a good family owned operation and there was none better. You might want to contact the seller (if that is possible) to ascertain how much of the work he did in finishing the boat out. He probably has photos too. Judging from the photos of the boat in the Broker's ad it looks like a good job/good workmanship. I used the Volvo Penta auxillary in most all of them but I like the one he put in this one. A little more output which never hurts.

I don't remember who the buyer of the hull and deck package was as it has been so long (and I sold out to a partner in 1979). Did you notice the build date on the H.I.N. number (it is on the transom just beneath the teak cap rail).

I hope this helps you a little. I will tell you that if I were fifteen years younger I would be back there looking at it myself. When I pulled the ad up today I was very surprised at how much they had dropped the price. It is a steal if there are no serious unforeseen issues.

Best of luck to you!

Garry
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Old 06-03-2016, 17:56   #78
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Re: Acapulco 40

Garry, thanks for the reply. I've seen your other posts too and it's great to have the builder online.
I've been looking at pictures of Janine and we'll make an appointment to see her asap. She appears to have a different shaped rudder from some online drawings and has the bowsprit as well. We'll see how she's faired over the years. Not sure when she was last in the water. I'll give you an update after we've been aboard.
I'd like to read Ed's book. Amazon is out of stock.
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Old 06-03-2016, 18:17   #79
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Re: Acapulco 40

Scott, you're post just showed up for me. Good luck with the survey. Sam
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Old 06-03-2016, 19:14   #80
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Re: Acapulco 40

Sam,

I had designed the added bowsprit platform and modified the rudder design slightly from my second boat on. The reason I explained earlier today in the forum. I hope this answers your question. Any old drawings will not show these changes and the very few boats that were built initially in the later Sixties will not have them. Most of the boats had a 45' mast, rigged in a cutter format. I had produced only two with a tall double spreader rig (50'), one of which was my own and the boat handled the tall rig very well. At first glance one might think the S/D ratio was a bit low, but the hull design easily accommodated that.

Garry
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Old 07-03-2016, 20:14   #81
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Re: Acapulco 40

Hi, Garry and Sam--

Thanks for your prompt reply. As Sam said, it's great to actually have you on here, so that we can get our answers direct from the "The Source". (and Sam, I'm only a little sorry for you, that we beat you to the punch on Janine! )

The boat is currently in the possession of the 2nd owner, who bought her at Rybovich's in Florida, after the original owner sailed her there from California, by way of Panama and the Isthmus island groups. Bob had her in Mobile until they decided to retire to Maine, and then brought her in stages up the East Coast to the Penobscot Bay area. He's getting on a bit, and had some health issues, so he's put her on the market.

Bob told me that he did have some problems with water intrusion in the rudder, which he has since had repaired, and there is evidence of some minor blistering on the hull, with partial repairs made (I don't believe that he had the whole hull barrier coated, just the places where the blisters appeared ground out , filled, and protected). As I said above, there was a survey done on the boat a year ago, and my questions are whether Bob has addressed all the issues that were discovered. I've reached out the owner of the previous survey, but not yet heard back from her.

The interior work appears to have been done by someone with both the talent and experience to build quality into his efforts. Having been in the boat business myself for nearly 30 years, I'm pretty particular about what I desire in boats of my own, and Janine ticks all the boxes. (My current boat is a Camper Nicholson, and my oldest friend is a carpenter for Hinckley's....)

I will let you all know what I find out, as events unfurl. Thanks again for the insight and information.

Scott
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Old 07-03-2016, 20:21   #82
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Re: Acapulco 40

Oh, and Garry-- the original owners, as near as I can tell, were Larry and Ellie Herbert.

S.
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Old 07-03-2016, 21:15   #83
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Re: Acapulco 40

Congratulations Steve!

Yup, Larry and Ellie from San Diego were the original owners. I had never seen Janine finished since we had sailed ours (MALUHIA) to Hawaii in July of 1979. When I built ours I borrowed an idea from a Hinkley Sou'wester 50 and used white oak on all bulkheads and furniture and teak for the trim and cabin sole. We bought some 8 quarter Ash and made shiplap from it and used it on the coach roof, all screwed and plugged, with a king plank running down the center. That combination kept things pretty light below. The MALUHIA was the finest one ever made. I believe there are pictures of it on this forum somewhere. Sorry I ever sold her!

Enjoy yours!

Garry
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Old 14-03-2016, 05:52   #84
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Re: Acapulco 40

Hi, Garry--

As I think I've mentioned before, apparently some work had been done to the rudder on Janine. I went back to look at her yesterday (Still waiting the survey, BTW), and noticed a significant bulge on the starboard side of the rudder. It might be as much as an inch thicker in the center (probably less), but it's blended in smoothly and really more 'visible' by touch than by sight. I tried taking a photo, but it's hard to see the difference... It's oddly shaped, too, with more of the bulge being forward of center, and high, rather than running the length of the chord of the rudder.

Now I know that in some boats, the rudders are asymmetrical, to help with directional stability, much like the trim system built into small planes. But I've not seen this type of thing in any of the previous sailboats I've owned. Is it possible that this is the case with Janine, or is it perhaps evidence of water intrusion and freeze-thaw cycles leading to a poor repair that I'm seeing? If so, then a complete re-build of the rudder would be in order, in order to bring it back into fair...


Any chance you can you can create any kind of diagram of how the rudder went together, in case I or someone else has to dive beneath the skin of the thing? That would be a bi help, knowing how the structure is shaped before we begin cutting things apart. Assuming I do go forward with the sale.


Thanks;

Scott
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Old 14-03-2016, 09:25   #85
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Re: Acapulco 40

Hi Scott,

That is interesting indeed. Due to the age of the boat and the use it has had, I suppose the rudder could have encountered some type of external breach which allowed seawater to penetrate it, eventually causing what you are seeing (feeling). While the rudder stock is solid 316 alloy shafting, the backbone that is welded to the shaft is not stainless. While this is a bit of a stretch, if there was any kind of an impact fracture that allowed sea water to reach the steel plate within the rudder, there is always a chance that corrosion could have occurred, much like spalling in a concrete structure (common in Hawaii).

And no, the rudder was not intentionally built that way. I think the only way to get a clue to what may be going on in there is to have it looked at by a firm that specializes in Ultrasonic Testing, if you can find one near by and the boat is still out of the water. The first thing I would do is strip the bottom paint from the side of the rudder where the bump is and look for signs of repair. You may be able to make a determination at that point on how to proceed (i.e. is it just a simple repair or is there evidence of seawater intrusion). The rudder is very heavy and it is a big job to pull it, and I would do that only as a last resort. The rudder should be fair of course, even though at hull speed that is not a big factor (it is not an F-16) but you do need to find out what is going on there. By the way, the hull design on these boats was done using NACA foil sections. I only mention this as you seem to know something about aircraft.

I am curious to know where this area in question appears on the rudder surface.

I hope this limited information helps in some way.

Garry
ps. There may be another Acapulco 40 coming on the market this summer in Brookings, Oregon, which is the Wind Chime, and was built alongside mine, by my ex-partner. As far as I know it still has the original MD3B Volvo Penta in it. I only used those because they can be hand cranked in an emergency (if one has enough adrenalin flowing, that is) and they fit the space better than other engines of that time.
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Old 14-03-2016, 10:04   #86
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Re: Acapulco 40

Scott:

Sorry, I forgot to address your last question. I no longer have any of the drawings. I will be happy to attempt to contact the company that did all my laminating work to see if they are still in business and might still have the drawings for the rudder design. By the way, you can reach me by email if you like at: tradjazzman@comcast.net.

Garry
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Old 27-03-2016, 07:38   #87
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Re: Acapulco 40

Scott, How are things working out with the purchase of Janine? Sam
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Old 28-03-2016, 06:18   #88
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Re: Acapulco 40

Hi, Sam--

We bought a copy of the survey done last year from the woman who was interested in her then, and then passed. The same surveyor is on line to re-do the trouble spots he identified, to see if the repairs that were done were appropriate. It's obvious that the rudder was not repaired well, so that continues to be an issue, though not necessarily a deal breaker. There were wet spots in the hull and deck, and the cockpit floor is soft but some repairs were attempted. Still not entirely sure that the deal is going through, but not scared enough yet to walk away today... Should hear back from the surveyor this week, hopefully.

S.
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Old 28-03-2016, 07:07   #89
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Re: Acapulco 40

Scott, thanks for the update. Too bad it wasn't just repaired right, it's not that much harder. Maybe being built after Garry left, she is cored?
This past weekend, we looked at the Rafiki 37 in Rockland. Very solid boat with all the appeal that a full keel double ender can offer. She's aging relatively gracefully, but she feels like an old boat. Dated equipment and original tankage are leaving me ambivalent, my wife, however is feeling more positive.
Good luck.
Sam
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Old 29-03-2016, 05:44   #90
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Re: Acapulco 40

Thanks, Sam--- I'll keep you guys abreast of what happens. I think that Garry actually did all the molding, and that it was only the interior that was 'home built'. That said, there are 'right' ways to bond deck fitting so that there aren't leaks around them, and there are the 'wrong' ways, and some of those appear to be the issue....

Interesting to hear about the Rafiki. Where in Rockland is it?


Scott
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