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Old 21-04-2015, 03:43   #1
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A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)



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Old 21-04-2015, 05:18   #2
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

nice vid. Where was it filmed? Didnt really look like storm force, maybe a near gale :P but handled it well. Looks like a nice yacht!
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Old 21-04-2015, 06:00   #3
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

hi, the footage was shot on the baltic sea (germany). the wind was about 45 knots, which is a force 9. for me this is storm :-). best wishes guido
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Old 21-04-2015, 06:08   #4
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

Sounds like Bavaria has a bad reputation. Why is that? Old wife's tale, or some truth to it.?
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Old 21-04-2015, 06:22   #5
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

@CSY Man

Well .. actually i do not really know too. I am absolutley satisfied with my Bavaria boat. But for any reason (especially in european forums) Bavaria yachts are victims to bashing and discredit since years. Maybe there have been some problems with single boats .. but i do not accept to let all Bavarias appear in a negative light. Thats the reason for my short (ironic) movie :-).

To "proof" that even a small Bavaria 32 is a seaworthy boat, i sailed single-handed around the atlantic ocean for the last 2 years. If you like, you can start watching the documentray here:


Cheers
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Old 21-04-2015, 07:42   #6
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

Okay Mel, I watched part 1 of your movie/journey.
Looks interesting for sure.
The boat seems all you need, especially for solo sailing, compact and nice, but don't bring too many fat girlfriends onboard

I have never sailed a Bavaria, but there seems to be mixed opinions, but as you say, it could have been from old problems, like Hunters.
I will be in the market for another sailboat sometimes in the future and will be openminded. So far I have been thinking Catalina's, but lusting for Hallberg Razzys.
Will look for part II of your journey around the Atlantic...
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Old 21-04-2015, 08:38   #7
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel1970 View Post
hi, the footage was shot on the baltic sea (germany). the wind was about 45 knots, which is a force 9. for me this is storm :-). best wishes guido
I had a Bavaria, nice yacht for the price even if there are better boats to handle gales, specially close upwind, that was when I had some troubles, not with doing it but with boat speed.

A F9 is a Stong gale. Storm is F10 and over. That looks like a gale not a strong gale. Sometimes there is some confusion about it, Strong Gale (F9) corresponds to sea conditions where the wind is blowing between 41/47K but that refers not to gusts but to sustained wind conditions. Gusts on a F9 can reach 50/55K.

Here some more movies with Bavarias sailing with considerable wind, on this case a Bavaria 36:



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Old 24-04-2015, 10:28   #8
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

@Polux

nice footage. thx for posting. regards guido
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Old 24-04-2015, 10:42   #9
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

Nothing wrong with Bavarias that isn't also wrong with Beneteau, Jeanneau etc. Particularly the older models like this one always struck me as being fairly well designed and built, and pretty good for cruising. From 2008 onwards they started updating their product line, and IMHO made decisions which made the boats less suitable for 'proper' sailing, and I am told quality took a bit of a dive as well. Whether their latest model updates fix this I have yet to see. The lure of the charter market remains strong for all mass-production yards, and this remains a bad thing for most cruising sailors.
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Old 24-04-2015, 11:04   #10
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

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Nothing wrong with Bavarias that isn't also wrong with Beneteau, Jeanneau etc. Particularly the older models like this one always struck me as being fairly well designed and built, and pretty good for cruising. From 2008 onwards they started updating their product line, and IMHO made decisions which made the boats less suitable for 'proper' sailing, and I am told quality took a bit of a dive as well. Whether their latest model updates fix this I have yet to see. The lure of the charter market remains strong for all mass-production yards, and this remains a bad thing for most cruising sailors.
It seems that you are one of those that think that older boats are always better than new ones. I had owned a 2002 Bavaria (the model on those movies) and it seems to me the new Bavarias are not worst then the older ones. I had heard that talk before but regarding the quality of the Bavarias from the 90's and the quality from the Bavarias from the early 00's

I have looked at them regularly on boat shows and regarding the 2002 line the main difference is that they opted to make heavier boats and the justification they gave me is that they don't want to participate no more on that race for lighter boats at any cost (mostly between French shipyards) and that they wanted to make more solid boats. I guess the accident with the Bavaria Match 42 (that lost the keel) had a big influence with that change of direction.

Then they came with the Vision line, more expensive but also with a quality that is superior than anything Bavaria had built before.

Can you explain why do you consider that the design is worst and what are the "decisions which made the boats less suitable for 'proper' sailing"?
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Old 24-04-2015, 11:44   #11
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

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It seems that you are one of those that think that older boats are always better than new ones. I had owned a 2002 Bavaria (the model on those movies) and it seems to me the new Bavarias are not worst then the older ones. I had heard that talk before but regarding the quality of the Bavarias from the 90's and the quality from the Bavarias from the early 00's

I have looked at them regularly on boat shows and regarding the 2002 line the main difference is that they opted to make heavier boats and the justification they gave me is that they don't want to participate no more on that race for lighter boats at any cost (mostly between French shipyards) and that they wanted to make more solid boats. I guess the accident with the Bavaria Match 42 (that lost the keel) had a big influence with that change of direction.

Then they came with the Vision line, more expensive but also with a quality that is superior than anything Bavaria had built before.

Can you explain why do you consider that the design is worst and what are the "decisions which made the boats less suitable for 'proper' sailing"?
Just to clarify, I was talking about the 2008 (Farr) line, not the 2002 (J&J) line, which I rather like. I wasn't having a go at anyones boat here. I can't pass informed comment on the Vision line.

An accumulation of small but annoying details really, which demonstrated an underlying disregard for the business of sailing offshore. Things like not having fiddles on the counters, but having rails which things would just slip under - making cooking at sea almost impossible. Losing the chart tables was I suppose inevitable, but predictably annoying to conservatively minded sailors like me, who do find them a useful 'place' for the crew on watch to leave things, even if most of the actual nav does happen on the saloon table. The openings in the hull got bigger, which is never a reassuring thing. Their interior layout options changed to include almost comical numbers of heads, which is a silly waste of space really, and only means more openings in the hull and more stuff to maintain. IMHO they really screwed up what had been pretty well thought out interior arrangements. Oh, and they beat the boats to death with an ugly stick... And I am told that their construction and fit-out quality (which I thought was actually quite a strong point of the older boats vis-a-vis Beneteau/Jeanneau) went down, they certainly lost the quite nice interior woodwork. So that's what I meant.

I had a big gripe about this in a long thread at the time, and remember getting fairly well shot down by those odd people who will support the mass-production yards no matter what. I think it's based on an ideological standpoint that mass production will always lead us to better things. Hmm.

Looking at pictures, a few of these gripes seem to be fixed in the new models, we'll have to wait and see.
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Old 24-04-2015, 13:27   #12
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

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Originally Posted by europaflyer View Post
Just to clarify, I was talking about the 2008 (Farr) line, not the 2002 (J&J) line, which I rather like. I wasn't having a go at anyones boat here. I can't pass informed comment on the Vision line.

An accumulation of small but annoying details really, which demonstrated an underlying disregard for the business of sailing offshore. Things like not having fiddles on the counters, but having rails which things would just slip under - making cooking at sea almost impossible. Losing the chart tables was I suppose inevitable, but predictably annoying to conservatively minded sailors like me, who do find them a useful 'place' for the crew on watch to leave things, even if most of the actual nav does happen on the saloon table. The openings in the hull got bigger, which is never a reassuring thing. Their interior layout options changed to include almost comical numbers of heads, which is a silly waste of space really, and only means more openings in the hull and more stuff to maintain. IMHO they really screwed up what had been pretty well thought out interior arrangements. Oh, and they beat the boats to death with an ugly stick... And I am told that their construction and fit-out quality (which I thought was actually quite a strong point of the older boats vis-a-vis Beneteau/Jeanneau) went down, they certainly lost the quite nice interior woodwork. So that's what I meant.

I had a big gripe about this in a long thread at the time, and remember getting fairly well shot down by those odd people who will support the mass-production yards no matter what. I think it's based on an ideological standpoint that mass production will always lead us to better things. Hmm.

Looking at pictures, a few of these gripes seem to be fixed in the new models, we'll have to wait and see.
I understood what you mean and I understood that you were talking about JJ designs versus Farr designs. Off course Farr hulls are more modern but if we take away the time factor I liked more JJ designs. Farr boats look fat to me but it is also true that the new Bavarias are more heavy and that according them means more solid built and that makes sense.

The Bavaria 46 was elected this years's European family cruiser by testers from all Europe because they find out it sailed well but most of all because it was stronger and better built then the competition (that's what they all said about the boat).

Regarding interiors I have to agree with you, not in what regards port hulls that are small if compared with the competition and are not a problem (the hull will break before they break) but in what regards interior general lay up and design they passed by a bad phase.

They had corrected that first on the Vision series and now they are correcting it on the cruiser series. Look at the interior of the 46:

BAVARIA Yachtbau - CRUISER 46

Big and deep fiddles on the counters, a separated block that allows you back support on the galley, a L chapped galley as well as a frontal one (and a huge one), a big stainless steel handlebar on the ceiling makes for a functional and smart interior even in what regards using it offshore.

Regarding heads if you have guests it is very nice to have all the cabins with a head but I am quite sure they will be more than happy in reducing the number of heads if you want transforming them in storage spaces.

If you want a boat more intended to voyage and to be used offshore (in what regards living) then the Vision is a better option. Look at the galley and the lay up that has a version with two cabins with only a big head with separated shower and a big storage interior space (Vision 42).

BAVARIA Yachtbau - VISION 42
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Old 24-04-2015, 13:57   #13
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

Pleased that you say they seem to be getting back on top of the quality again. I hadn't really looked at the Visions before, but as you say they do seem to have a more 'owner orientated' interior which I rather like.

I like what they've done with the interiors of the new cruiser line. Good spot on the grabrail on the ceiling. Not what I would have expected from a production yacht at all, and a good thing. Glad to see that the trend of ever less offshore suitable boats coming out of the production yards seems to have been slightly reversed, at least for the moment.

Still too many heads and not enough chart table for my liking, but I know I'm not their target market. Put me in charge of a mass production yard and I'm quite sure I would run it in to the ground in no time at all!
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Old 25-04-2015, 00:52   #14
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

I had a 1997 Bav 46 Exclusive. She was from J&J design and sailed well and fast. She had a antimony coated deep lead keel and a tall fractional rig. She was quick and sea kindly and very well built. I bought her at a price point because she had been tarred by the bad publicity affecting Bavaria following the "Match" incidents... The problem of the "Match" keels was not really Bavaria's doing but of some dealers in their network who had the boat delivered "sans" keel then botched up the attachment of the keel to the trestle in an effort to move the ballast lower in the keel. The rest, sadly, is history
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Old 03-05-2015, 07:17   #15
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Re: A short movie for all Bavaria sceptics :-)

Dear Gentlemen,

We are going to purchase a 2nd hand Bavaria 34 (2008). Is there anything we should inspect / looking for particularly?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Felix
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