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Old 18-04-2015, 12:29   #1
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A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

A question of Shape, LOA and Draft
I’m researching beam and draft for a 50-55 foot liveaboard. Looking for a beam of 15sh+ and a sub 7 foot draft. I want to maximize comfortable space above and below (there will be small children!), stability and ease of shorthanded sailing is key. It’s really the beam and draft question I would like some opinions on as it applies to keel design. With a full keel I find stability and a lower draft but maneuverability decreases… with a fin the draft increase in order to achieve stability.
Any ideas would be appreciated
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Old 18-04-2015, 12:56   #2
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Re: A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

What follows is written in a truly friendly tone of voice and with the sole intent to help.

Whenever I see a post asking about a boat or "help me find a boat that…" the first question that enters my mind is:

"What is your budget?"

With an adequate budget (funds or "asking price range") one can find a solution.

Without the adequate budget, it is asking folks to name what they would want, without necessarily any real fit for what you can buy.

So, name the funds and then ask folks to spend them for you.
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Also, I think asking for a boat of a certain beam is looking at the wrong criteria.
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Where will you sail?

And no mention of where you intend to sail or live. I think those are important to consider.

And you make no mention of boats you have already found (your short list).

Is Age of Boat Important?

And you make no mention of what age of boat (Must it be new? Is 1980 age OK?) is acceptable and what type or style of boat you like or prefer. Those things are important too.
_______________

Fin Keel or Full Keel?

Regarding the choice of "fin keel" or "full keel" or 'shape' of the hull and keel, those issues are extensively discussed or argued about in numerous threads here. If you are serious about buying a boat, I would assume you have already read as much as possible about those design considerations. If not, the Google Custom Search feature found on this site's Search drop down menu is helpful.

Here is a quick search to show you what I mean:

fin or full keel - Google Search

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I hope these suggestions help you.
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Old 18-04-2015, 13:49   #3
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Re: A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

Look at the design specs of the Tayana 52, 15 footish beam, 6'6" draft and a fin keel with skeg hung rudder


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Old 18-04-2015, 14:32   #4
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Re: A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

Well, I really did not want to skew the discussion. the range of boats I've looked at are from the 70/80 vintage CT 54,Vagabond, Hans Christian to the 2000ish Super Amel... so from 150K to 300ish. Depending on where I find the right boat, I will sail initially in San Jauns and the Coast of Alaska or the Caribbean.
thanks!
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Old 18-04-2015, 14:42   #5
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Re: A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

If you are looking for low draft, comfort and stability, consider a cat, though that will of course mean more beam.
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Old 18-04-2015, 16:26   #6
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Re: A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

This should be a STICKY called "How to Ask a Question"

Good one.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
What follows is written in a truly friendly tone of voice and with the sole intent to help.

Whenever I see a post asking about a boat or "help me find a boat that…" the first question that enters my mind is:

"What is your budget?"

With an adequate budget (funds or "asking price range") one can find a solution.

Without the adequate budget, it is asking folks to name what they would want, without necessarily any real fit for what you can buy.

So, name the funds and then ask folks to spend them for you.
__________________

Also, I think asking for a boat of a certain beam is looking at the wrong criteria.
__________________

Where will you sail?

And no mention of where you intend to sail or live. I think those are important to consider.

And you make no mention of boats you have already found (your short list).

Is Age of Boat Important?

And you make no mention of what age of boat (Must it be new? Is 1980 age OK?) is acceptable and what type or style of boat you like or prefer. Those things are important too.
_______________

Fin Keel or Full Keel?

Regarding the choice of "fin keel" or "full keel" or 'shape' of the hull and keel, those issues are extensively discussed or argued about in numerous threads here. If you are serious about buying a boat, I would assume you have already read as much as possible about those design considerations. If not, the Google Custom Search feature found on this site's Search drop down menu is helpful.

Here is a quick search to show you what I mean:

fin or full keel - Google Search

___________________

I hope these suggestions help you.
__________________
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Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
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Old 18-04-2015, 16:44   #7
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Re: A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by riderjuan View Post

(...)

I want to

maximize comfortable space above and below (...),
stability and
ease of shorthanded sailing is key

(...)
You want a jumbo that will fly like a glider?

We all do.

Now on the more serious vane: if you say 'liveaboard' and 'children' then I say 'beam'.

Buys you space and stability (think form stability, initial stability, etc.)

Ease of shorthanded sailing is related to deck / cockpit / hardware choices and layout.

b.
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Old 19-04-2015, 09:18   #8
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Re: A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

Good Old Boat magazine had an article some years back called the "comfort factor". It's a good read, as stability does not necessarily equate to comfort and safety.
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Old 19-04-2015, 11:01   #9
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Re: A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

While not popular in the US, have you considered bilge keels?

Tankersteve
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Old 19-04-2015, 11:08   #10
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Re: A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

Unless you have a reason for avoiding wider beam a 40-45' cat will give you more space, shallower draft and probably more comfortable for a family.


If money is no object, a blub keel can help but realistically, most people won't change out the keel, you gets what comes with the boat.
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Old 19-04-2015, 12:17   #11
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Re: A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by riderjuan View Post
Well, I really did not want to skew the discussion. the range of boats I've looked at are from the 70/80 vintage CT 54,Vagabond, Hans Christian to the 2000ish Super Amel... so from 150K to 300ish. Depending on where I find the right boat, I will sail initially in San Jauns and the Coast of Alaska or the Caribbean.
thanks!
I have not sailed the Vagabond.

Re Amel vs. HCh:

- A: better upwind ride, possibly faster beam reach, more protection,
- HCh: more volume, more maintenance, more exposure, simpler systems,

I think both HCh and A are easy to single-hand. They are two different styles: French vs. American, practical vs. picturesque, modern vs. classic, etc. I can equally easy imagine having unforegetable adventures in any of them.

We have a friend who has a Vagabond. He loves his boat and speaks highly of quality and comfort. He is not happy with performance BUT he is not after performance.

PS If you look towards Amels at all, do look at some pre Super models. They are just as good, slightly smaller and considerably less expensive.

b.
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Old 19-04-2015, 14:54   #12
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Re: A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

What about a (very) used Moorings 500 or 510 monohull? Four cabins, big saloon, generally well conceived systems, etc. Probably have lots of hours, but it might provide a reasonable interior.

Chuck
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Old 20-04-2015, 07:50   #13
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Re: A question of Shape, LOA, and Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by mebccb View Post
the "comfort factor"... as stability does not necessarily equate to comfort and safety.
Seems like many discussions lately eliminate the classic “ball-park” calculations… SA/Disp, DLR, Comfort calculations, beam length, etc., etc… the apparent norm for a lot of these has changed over time, but when one is looking for conventional interior volume, easy of motion (or whatever) they do help to at least identify what size/shape the box would be… Except that that they are getting pretty long in the tooth, and their systems quality was never top-drawer, I always like the motion of the Ted Irwin center-cockpits with the shallow keel – they generally could sit on their own keel without nosing over, decent/predicable (if not sparkling) performance, easy motion and an obscene amount of deck-space and cabin(s) volume…
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