A *new* "which boat" thread. Just what the board needs. ha ha ha - Page 2

Talbot · 12-07-2006, 02:33

On the basis of your specs, I would look at a GRP folkboat, or similar (Folksong, Folkdancer, Contessa) have a look at the thread on these boats as I attached some pictures and a link to a site with a lot of details about the Folkboat.

Catamount · 12-07-2006, 06:34

Sean,

Regarding outboard power, you might take a look at this: http://www.capehorn.com/sections/rem...toriserAng.htm

Following this example, probably any relatively small inboard powered auxillary yacht could be re-powered with an outboard.

Good luck in your search!

rsn48 · 12-07-2006, 22:58

I am happy with an outboard motor in my Catalina. I know this isn't the popular option so I usually keep my mouth shut. But with the Mercs being so quiet and reliable, ease of access guaranteed, low fuel usage with the new 4 strokes, and cheapness of replacement motors a given, I can't help but be pleased with it. The four strokes also don't smoke and stink like the old 2 strokes did.

I had a powered outboard bracket installed and I really like it, press a button and up it goes, press the button the other way, down it goes. I have four golf cart batteries as my power supply, along with my dedicated battery for motor starting so power isn't an issue. On top of these batteries, I also bring one of those portable emergency batteries for back up. If you get rid of the diesel, you have lots of room for batteries and other superfluous junk (in my case, a portable 1000 watt generator).

The Merc 9.9 in actual fact is over kill for my Catalina 27, but I like having the extra power. Guys who buy a 15 hp motor for the Catalinas are throwing their money away.

You won't score any points with the "cool" crowd, but you'll have a much more fuel efficient, quiet, serviceable engine, that is horrendous in reverse on the Catalinas - its one major drawback. I like to call it the "going astern lottery" - what will the boat do now?

One review of Catalina 27's suggested that the room was so cramped with the Atomic 4's size to the space available, the servicing of these engines was often neglected. The reviewer felt you were better of with a Catalina with an outboard. I also don't miss the occasional whiff of diesel fuel you can get inside the boat.

Good luck

Jentine · 13-07-2006, 00:05

Here ya go, Sean.

" Favona is for sale
Favona, winner of the 1953 Fastnet, is for sale to a good home. She is a Robert Clark design built by Aeromarine Ltd.. As of 1987, she still held the record as the smallest boat to win the Fasnet and may still hold that record. In any case, the winner of the smallest boat class in today’s Fastnet Race wins the Favona Cup. Favona is 32’6" with an 8’ beam and a 6’ draft. I’ve been working on & sailing her for 15 years, but I think it’s time to pass her along to someone else. Photos available on request. 28,500 USD. Keelbolts@cox.net. 757.265.6045."

Talbot · 13-07-2006, 03:29

If your outboard is not providing any astern power, You have the wrong prop. You need to invest in a "Hi Thrust" (may be called something different by merc) which is designed to push a sailboat and provide considerably greater stern power.

rsn48 · 13-07-2006, 15:51

The motor will move the boat astern, but I don't have much steerage way. The solution is to steer from the motor tiller, instead of the boat tiller. However, I don't have a tiller on my merc. At the boat show, the solution I toyed with was a motor that moved the motor one way or the other with a remote (can't remember if it was wired or not).

JohnWms · 13-07-2006, 16:27

For a used boat you must enter the decision matrix with purchase price and an knowledge of boats in your area. Any discussion about size, keel type, steering, etc., and especially brand, is moot.

Pick a purchase price and see what it will buy within the area you can comfortably travel to and deliver from. If you are going to pay cash do it before the kid arrives. They'll suck up all your resources. Use the boat as a "den" for occasional evenings away.

Talbot · 14-07-2006, 02:03

a Hi Thrust propr will give you decent stern way.

For steering, you could do a lot worse than the system I have. (I have a diesel outboard on my cat) I installed a standard outboard steering system as a supplementary to the normal steering, but instead of using a wheel, I have a single arm. provides more than enough cotrol, and works really well.

Wahoo Sails · 14-07-2006, 18:14

Hey Sean,
One of the tricks that no one seem's to mention is finding the right boat ... and an owner that HAS to sell!
May sound like an unlikely arrangement ... but we're living proof that it does happen. We bought Sew Good for $15K ... not 90 days later had her surveyed and appraised at $72.5K ....!!! There are lots of people in "The boating capitol of the country" (AKA Florida) that can no longer afford to own a boat here .... just recently heard of a 50' Gulfstar for $5K ... a 29' Bayfield for $800 ... know a chap that bought a 31' Moody for $5K ... it does happen!

Bob & Lynn

rsn48 · 15-07-2006, 18:58

Talbot, on review of my last post here, it sounded like I was dismissive of your idea. In fact I'm checking it out now. It was my understanding that the Merc 9.9 Big Foot came with a hi thrust prop, but I've been know to be wrong in life at least a million times.

hellosailor · 17-07-2006, 16:30

Sean-
You say you want:
"*Possibly an outboard engine instead of an inboard ...
*Lots of tankage"

To me, that's a contradiction in terms. An outboard means maybe a 26-footer, tops, and lots of tankage means bigger heavier boat. I suppose you could technically say the QE2 uses an outboard when she uses tugs <G> but perhaps if you had a more specific size boat in mind? $30K on today's market will either buy you a small boat or a project boat. If you look around in New Orleans, there are plenty of project hulls that might be the answer for you. Not much left inside, so you're buying the hull and you can make the rest be what you want. (Of course, first you'd have to spend a month down in desolation land working on that hull, or truck it out.)
$30K budget just won't buy a lot of boat, will buy a bit more if the inboard engine is blown and you just pull it. (Which also makes it cheaper to register, at least in NY, if there's no engine, there's no registration fee.)

Tropic Cat · 17-07-2006, 21:55

I think Bob is on the right track. We have lots of sailors move to Florida only to discover they can't support themselves here. The boat goes up for sale immediately. The time to buy is when desperation sets in. Besides, a fall sail up the East Coast with a side trip to the Bahamas would be kind of nice.

Rick in Florida

jimisbell · 01-11-2006, 21:41

We got rid of a Bruce Roberts 44 because it was too big, bought a Gulfstar 36 and actually have more room in it than in the BR 44. It seems to meet most of your requirements including the price. They are not the most desirable of boats because of their age. Ours is a 1972 and we got it for $30K and it had just been COMPLETELY rebuilt except for the engine. It looked almost new. I have seen others for as little as $20K The room in a GS 36 is amazing. ONE downfall, the high freeboard especially forward makes it something you have to leard when it comes to maneuvering at slow speed in close quarters in a wind. It took me a few times getting caught in the down wind corner of a harbor and unable to turn up wind before I learned to stay up wind in close spaces. I am adding a stern thruster to it now. The stern thruster mounts on the swim platform and wont require any holes in the hull.

Lynx · 01-11-2006, 23:44

The perfect boat is one that will get you there and back and there and back ..........................

You also will need to be happy with it.

Good luck, keep repairs in mind and how much $$$$$ you will have before you go cruising. I hope that you get out there before I do.

David_Old_Jersey · 02-11-2006, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssullivan

So... I am asking you all for a couple of suggestions as to makes and models that would fit the following criteria:

*Sloop or Ketch - Ketch
*Heavy displacement - speed not crucial (Yup!!), ability to break a wake/wave essential - Yes!!
*Tough hull - like I have now. Can take a beating. Yes!!
*100% Manual Systems (foot pump for water, etc...) - or no systems - Yes
*Possibly an outboard engine instead of an inboard - save future expense, make more room aboard - No
*Solar, Wind to support refrigeration (could be added later) - Maybe
*Pullman berth - If this is "American" for Seaberths - Yes!
*Wheel or tiller, but maybe a windvane already installed - Wheel
*Lots of tankage for H2O - Yes!
*Low maintenance - really rugged - Rugged yes, low maintanence? - it's a relative term!
*$30K or less - Not sure what the US / GBP FX rate is doing, so looking at the Cheaper / the more "rugged" examples (Like I did

)...........and I don't think any are on your side of the "pond".

Anybody have any thoughts?............Seadog!

They also made a Deeper single Keel version.

Seadog!! (and I am biased!).............can't guarantee help with a delivery trip - but you never know!! (I would certainly do the trip in one)

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/.../seadog-30.htm

http://www.seadog.co.uk/seadogorg/index.htm

12-07-2006, 02:33	#1
Talbot Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stavanger, Norway Boat: Last boat was a Catalac 9m Hi-Jude Posts: 2,905	On the basis of your specs, I would look at a GRP folkboat, or similar (Folksong, Folkdancer, Contessa) have a look at the thread on these boats as I attached some pictures and a link to a site with a lot of details about the Folkboat. __________________ "Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss." Robert A Heinlein

12-07-2006, 06:34	#2
Catamount Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Keene, NH Boat: Island Yachts Peterson 34 GREYHAWK Posts: 252	Sean, Regarding outboard power, you might take a look at this: http://www.capehorn.com/sections/rem...toriserAng.htm Following this example, probably any relatively small inboard powered auxillary yacht could be re-powered with an outboard. Good luck in your search! __________________ Tim Allen My Boat Projects and Sailing Stories Sailors for the Sea, a new voice for ocean conservation

13-07-2006, 00:05	#4
Jentine Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Massachusetts Boat: Beneteau 393, "Blackthorn" Posts: 564	Here ya go, Sean. " Favona is for sale Favona, winner of the 1953 Fastnet, is for sale to a good home. She is a Robert Clark design built by Aeromarine Ltd.. As of 1987, she still held the record as the smallest boat to win the Fasnet and may still hold that record. In any case, the winner of the smallest boat class in today’s Fastnet Race wins the Favona Cup. Favona is 32’6" with an 8’ beam and a 6’ draft. I’ve been working on & sailing her for 15 years, but I think it’s time to pass her along to someone else. Photos available on request. 28,500 USD. Keelbolts@cox.net. 757.265.6045." __________________ Jim We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." --Aristotle

13-07-2006, 03:29	#5
Talbot Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stavanger, Norway Boat: Last boat was a Catalac 9m Hi-Jude Posts: 2,905	If your outboard is not providing any astern power, You have the wrong prop. You need to invest in a "Hi Thrust" (may be called something different by merc) which is designed to push a sailboat and provide considerably greater stern power. __________________ "Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss." Robert A Heinlein

14-07-2006, 02:03	#8
Talbot Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stavanger, Norway Boat: Last boat was a Catalac 9m Hi-Jude Posts: 2,905	a Hi Thrust propr will give you decent stern way. For steering, you could do a lot worse than the system I have. (I have a diesel outboard on my cat) I installed a standard outboard steering system as a supplementary to the normal steering, but instead of using a wheel, I have a single arm. provides more than enough cotrol, and works really well. __________________ "Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss." Robert A Heinlein

12-07-2006, 22:58	#3
rsn48 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Deep Cove - North Vancouver, BC Boat: Catalina 27 - Leaky Cauldron Posts: 350	I am happy with an outboard motor in my Catalina. I know this isn't the popular option so I usually keep my mouth shut. But with the Mercs being so quiet and reliable, ease of access guaranteed, low fuel usage with the new 4 strokes, and cheapness of replacement motors a given, I can't help but be pleased with it. The four strokes also don't smoke and stink like the old 2 strokes did. I had a powered outboard bracket installed and I really like it, press a button and up it goes, press the button the other way, down it goes. I have four golf cart batteries as my power supply, along with my dedicated battery for motor starting so power isn't an issue. On top of these batteries, I also bring one of those portable emergency batteries for back up. If you get rid of the diesel, you have lots of room for batteries and other superfluous junk (in my case, a portable 1000 watt generator). The Merc 9.9 in actual fact is over kill for my Catalina 27, but I like having the extra power. Guys who buy a 15 hp motor for the Catalinas are throwing their money away. You won't score any points with the "cool" crowd, but you'll have a much more fuel efficient, quiet, serviceable engine, that is horrendous in reverse on the Catalinas - its one major drawback. I like to call it the "going astern lottery" - what will the boat do now? One review of Catalina 27's suggested that the room was so cramped with the Atomic 4's size to the space available, the servicing of these engines was often neglected. The reviewer felt you were better of with a Catalina with an outboard. I also don't miss the occasional whiff of diesel fuel you can get inside the boat. Good luck

13-07-2006, 15:51	#6
rsn48 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Deep Cove - North Vancouver, BC Boat: Catalina 27 - Leaky Cauldron Posts: 350	The motor will move the boat astern, but I don't have much steerage way. The solution is to steer from the motor tiller, instead of the boat tiller. However, I don't have a tiller on my merc. At the boat show, the solution I toyed with was a motor that moved the motor one way or the other with a remote (can't remember if it was wired or not).

13-07-2006, 16:27	#7
JohnWms Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Puget Sound Boat: 1981 C&C 34 Posts: 46	For a used boat you must enter the decision matrix with purchase price and an knowledge of boats in your area. Any discussion about size, keel type, steering, etc., and especially brand, is moot. Pick a purchase price and see what it will buy within the area you can comfortably travel to and deliver from. If you are going to pay cash do it before the kid arrives. They'll suck up all your resources. Use the boat as a "den" for occasional evenings away.

14-07-2006, 18:14	#9
Wahoo Sails Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Marathon, Florida Boat: Cape Dory 28, "Night Wind" Posts: 353	Hey Sean, One of the tricks that no one seem's to mention is finding the right boat ... and an owner that HAS to sell! May sound like an unlikely arrangement ... but we're living proof that it does happen. We bought Sew Good for $15K ... not 90 days later had her surveyed and appraised at $72.5K ....!!! There are lots of people in "The boating capitol of the country" (AKA Florida) that can no longer afford to own a boat here .... just recently heard of a 50' Gulfstar for $5K ... a 29' Bayfield for $800 ... know a chap that bought a 31' Moody for $5K ... it does happen! Bob & Lynn

15-07-2006, 18:58	#10
rsn48 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Deep Cove - North Vancouver, BC Boat: Catalina 27 - Leaky Cauldron Posts: 350	Talbot, on review of my last post here, it sounded like I was dismissive of your idea. In fact I'm checking it out now. It was my understanding that the Merc 9.9 Big Foot came with a hi thrust prop, but I've been know to be wrong in life at least a million times.

17-07-2006, 16:30	#11
hellosailor Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,993	Sean- You say you want: "Possibly an outboard engine instead of an inboard ... Lots of tankage" To me, that's a contradiction in terms. An outboard means maybe a 26-footer, tops, and lots of tankage means bigger heavier boat. I suppose you could technically say the QE2 uses an outboard when she uses tugs <G> but perhaps if you had a more specific size boat in mind? $30K on today's market will either buy you a small boat or a project boat. If you look around in New Orleans, there are plenty of project hulls that might be the answer for you. Not much left inside, so you're buying the hull and you can make the rest be what you want. (Of course, first you'd have to spend a month down in desolation land working on that hull, or truck it out.) $30K budget just won't buy a lot of boat, will buy a bit more if the inboard engine is blown and you just pull it. (Which also makes it cheaper to register, at least in NY, if there's no engine, there's no registration fee.)

17-07-2006, 21:55	#12
Tropic Cat Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Melbourne, FL Boat: Catalac Catamaran Posts: 1,792	I think Bob is on the right track. We have lots of sailors move to Florida only to discover they can't support themselves here. The boat goes up for sale immediately. The time to buy is when desperation sets in. Besides, a fall sail up the East Coast with a side trip to the Bahamas would be kind of nice. Rick in Florida __________________ Sailing 12 months a year in Sunny Florida Catalac Catamaran info site

01-11-2006, 21:41	#13
jimisbell Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Third Coast, TEXAS Boat: Gulfstar 36 Motorsailer & Albin 25 Trawler Posts: 167	We got rid of a Bruce Roberts 44 because it was too big, bought a Gulfstar 36 and actually have more room in it than in the BR 44. It seems to meet most of your requirements including the price. They are not the most desirable of boats because of their age. Ours is a 1972 and we got it for $30K and it had just been COMPLETELY rebuilt except for the engine. It looked almost new. I have seen others for as little as $20K The room in a GS 36 is amazing. ONE downfall, the high freeboard especially forward makes it something you have to leard when it comes to maneuvering at slow speed in close quarters in a wind. It took me a few times getting caught in the down wind corner of a harbor and unable to turn up wind before I learned to stay up wind in close spaces. I am adding a stern thruster to it now. The stern thruster mounts on the swim platform and wont require any holes in the hull.

01-11-2006, 23:44	#14
Lynx Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Boat: MacGregor 26M Lynx Posts: 350	The perfect boat is one that will get you there and back and there and back .......................... You also will need to be happy with it. Good luck, keep repairs in mind and how much $$$$$ you will have before you go cruising. I hope that you get out there before I do.

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