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Old 12-12-2013, 09:59   #46
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Re: A new adventure

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Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
Before the yelling starts, I must point out that what your second picture shows is probably not your headstay at all, but a halyard that is attached to the turnbuckle. It shows an unidentifiable wire (or maybe some type of rope) that is NICO PRESSED which is a copper sleeve that is mechanically crushed over the wire. this type of fitting is not suitable for your size boat, as standing rigging. It may be OK as a halyard end, but not as a headstay. If your friends didnt point that out to you, you might look for more knowledgable advice. just my 2 cents worth. ______Grant.
Grant, that wire is not likely to be a halyard since it is 1x19 construction and not at all suitable to run over the sheaves at the masthead. This means (to me at least) that it is indeed the forestay, and as you point out, thimbles and Nico-press sleeves are NOT appropriate terminals for such wire.

Flyinace, if your surveyor didn't condemn that stay, then I would discount anything else that he said, for that sort of termination is extremely bad practice and should have been noted. If all the shrouds and stays are made like that, well, the whole rig is at risk. It would be worth your while to ask a rigger to inspect the rig. I know that this isn't what you want to hear, but I have seen masts lost from exactly that cause.

Sorry to be the proverbial parade-rainer, but what I see isn't very encouraging.

Good luck,

Jim
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:16   #47
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So how should they be done instead of nico pressed? As far as I know this rig has held up for many years, and one of the previous owners used to race her
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:37   #48
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Re: A New Adventure

FA, there are two common means of terminating standing rigging that uses s/s 1x19 wire: swaged and mechanical. The terminals may be in the form of eyes or forks or turnbuckle studs. If you look around your marina, most yachts will have the swaged terminals. These will look like a smooth s/s cylinder with the wire coming out one end and a fork or eye on the other end. The fork or eye will be connected to a turnbuckle (or rigging screw as they are also known). Sometimes the swaged fitting is a threaded stud that forms part of the turnbuckle assembly. The mechanical terminals (Sta-Lok and Norseman are common brands) use mechanical compression in threaded assemblies to grip the wire rather than swaging. This type are reusable and can be fitted by a yottie DIY person. their original cost is higher than swages, but can save money in the long run.

The reason that the thimble+Nicopress method is bad for 1x19 wire is because this wire is quite stiff, and when you bend it around the thimble it is distorted. This distortion puts most of the load on the few strands at the outside of the bend instead of distributing the load over all the strands. Eventually, these strands fail from overload, and then the load is placed on the next few and the process continues until the whole thing breaks

The rig on your boat may well be old, and it may have survived. Who can say what loads have been placed on it? All I can say is that I would not care to go to sea on a boat relying on such fittings, and that you should be aware of their shortcomings.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:00   #49
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OK, thank you for that informative post. I'll have to look into changing those then. If I do it myself what tools are needed and do I have to replace the entire cable or just remove the nico press and put on the new attachment?
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:15   #50
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Re: A New Adventure

FA, putting new terminals on wire of old but unknown age would be a waste of time and money. I would do it right and replace the whole shroud or stay.

I don't know what your fiscal situation is, and there may be more pressing things to worry about for the short term. I would again suggest having a rigger look it over and give you an estimate for his doing the job. Then, some net time chasing parts will give you an idea of how much you could save by doing it yourself. If you choose to use mechanical fittings, the only tools required are a vise, a wrench and some means of cutting the wire. Another approach is to use swaged fittings, but buying them and the wire yourself, doing the fitting up and then having the rigging shop do the swages in their machine.

There have been several threads about DIY rigging here on CF, so some searching will give you some more opinions and info on the subject.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:29   #51
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OK, thank you. At the moment I don't have the money to redo the entire rigging, but since the mechanical terminals seem to be reusable I'll probably go that route and slowly replace it all. The cables themselves seem to be in pretty good condition from just a visual inspection, but I'll try to find a local rigger to come check it out
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Old 12-12-2013, 18:23   #52
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Re: A New Adventure

Hi Jim, this proves either my computer , or my eye sight is lousy. I am still not sure what it is, in that it is hard to get that size 1by19 to go around that small of a thimble without some real distortion. I like Nico press on smaller boats, but it has no place for standing rigging on this size boat. The OP is on a learning curve, and I suspect that rigging will be just one of the bumps that goes along with the learning. It sounds like he will do just fine. _____Grant.
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Old 13-12-2013, 06:24   #53
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Re: A New Adventure

flyinace
go find a riggger.
make friends fast
(bring beer)
consult and learn all you can. (might need a full on bbq.)

pick his brainand ask what would HE use if it were his boat and go from there.....he will see in person the problems and advise in fast words what you need. either tape record his words or remember realllly well what he says and go for it. at christmas or new years, give a niice present

you have an excellent hull and deck combo to build on. you have a bulletproof hull that is able to sail rtw.
just the rest needs work, but that is normal for boats.
as long as hull and deck are good..you are golden.
those were built with masts that are able to be stepped fro bridges. look at the bast/mast step see fit is still the original. ir is deck stepped. could well be that your deck is cored with a honey comb fg material hank was experimenting with that prevents sag of deck with age...check your compression post below your mast. check your keel bolts. mine were a little weepy in 1990. i believe your have a bolt on iron keel. was what mine was.
hank mckune didnt have encapsulated keels until someone broke the good mold your boat was popped out of. hank made new molds and made encapsulated keels for yorktown line. his latest works were 40 ft and 37 ft and mine was 42, stretch transom.last layup was 1991. mine. then health issues forced him out of business.

btw..i watched hank lay up my 42--he did all by hand. gelcoat is 1/8 in thick, hand painted into mold. then he hand laid the matt and roving until that hull was 2 inches thick, or 27 layers. lots of resin. squeegied well. goood solid boat. enjoy her. he was proud o fall his babies and knew where every one was. i got to listen to many stories while he was working.

...
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Old 13-12-2013, 08:25   #54
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Re: A New Adventure

Beer is good.
I always kept a cooler with plenty of beer in it in the back of my pickup (for easy access) when working on my boat in the yard, it always attracted a number of "experts" who would hang out and help themselves.
This proved fruitful when seeking advice on certain topics, if your doing your work in a low dollar working mans boatyard you get lots of people who've done it before themselves, beers the perfect lubricant to get the advice flowing.
Of course you don't want to actually be drinking it yourself when dropping a keel.
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Old 13-12-2013, 12:10   #55
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Re: A New Adventure

Thanx for the advice guys, I appreciate it. I think I'll give the bbq idea a try...once I clean the one that came with the boat. I guess I better pull that off and start cleaning it.
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