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Old 11-06-2016, 10:08   #1
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A cruiser you can race?

I currently own an Ericson 32-3 which I regard as a great boat. The E32-3 is however a bit small for long distance open water races like the St Petersburg to Havana race. I am getting older and softer now, so I am considering stepping up to a boat that is more comfortable for long distance sailing. My next boat should be more of a cruising boat, but one that will not cause people to point at me and laugh when I cross the finish line....or worse, DNF because I could not make it to the line within the time limits.

Some of the boats that I am looking at include: Cabo Rico 38. Beneteaus in the 39-40 range, Ericson 38. This list is far from complete.

Some cruising boats, like the Endeavor 40, perhaps the Islander Freeport, seem to lack performance sufficient to avoid the finger pointing and laughter although I appreciate the comfort.

I would like:
a shoal draft (5 ft would be great)
Bridge clearance under 60 ft.
sea kindly and sturdy enough for blue water comfort
easy to handle short handed
not too tender
with the ability to point reasonably well


I have read a good bit here on the forum about related topics.

Your suggestions would be appreciated.
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Old 11-06-2016, 10:39   #2
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

J/42, 80's-90's Beneteau First 38, First 435, Tartan 40, 41, 412
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:03   #3
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

A boat with a shoal draft won't point.


Take a look at the J120. It has a 7ft draft.
http://www.jboats.com/j120-performance
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:12   #4
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

A J, an X, a First, a Pogo, etc.

b.
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:27   #5
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

The following is offered A friendly tone of voice with the sole intent to help you: I think any post asking for boat suggestions should provide the forum with the expected Asking Price Range or Asking Price LIMIT for the boats you would buy.

For example: If you have $100,000 Asking Price Limit , there is little need to spend time looking at boats that are selling for $20k or $250K.

As for your requirement for shoal draft (which some sellers say is 6 feet), I think that may make the selection smaller, and asking for 5 feet draft even more limiting. I can appreciate the reason, since you live on the Florida West Coast, where a large part of the coast is shoal draft or as little as 1-2-3 feet depth going out a long way from the shoreline.

I will check my notes of you, I noted some for my own research. Will post in a minute.
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:44   #6
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

Steady Shoal Draft List

Pacific Seacraft 31, 34, 37. All less than 5 feet draft.

Island Packet 460 - Less than 5

Catalina 375. = Less than 5

Beneteau 37 (check model) draft 4' 7"

Hunter 36 draft 4' 11"

Sabre 386. Draft 4'10"

Compac 35. Draft less than 5

Hanse 350.

Tartan 3400, 3700 4100. (All less than 5, keel centerboard boats)

Southerly (UK) (swing keel)

Hake (made in Florida) Hake 35RK. (Draft as little as 20" with "rising keel")

________

Hope that helps.
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:44   #7
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptThunder View Post

I would like:
a shoal draft (5 ft would be great)
Bridge clearance under 60 ft.
sea kindly and sturdy enough for blue water comfort
easy to handle short handed
not too tender
with the ability to point reasonably well


I have read a good bit here on the forum about related topics.

Your suggestions would be appreciated.
If you are looking for a new boat, the numbers for the Elan E5 / 400 are really impressive, and it seems like it's pretty comfortable and reasonably priced:
Elan 400

However, the mast height is over 60' and it has a deep draft. Which brings me to another point; most racing monohulls have, by necessity, tall rigs and deep drafts.

If you want a fast cruising boat that has a shoal draft, plus the ability to point, then I think the only boat that fits that description would be a trimaran. The dragonflys come to mind.

Or there are lifting keel boats, like the Seawards. The 46RK is pretty expensive, but the Seaward 32 might work well for you. Yachts like the Southerlys have swing keels that go from like 3' to 9', but the boats are heavy with tons of ballast.
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:44   #8
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

Quote:
Originally Posted by savoir View Post
A boat with a shoal draft won't point.


Take a look at the J120. It has a 7ft draft.
Performance
7ft draft on the Fla west coast is no fun. Another option is a boat with a center board, like some of the Tartans of Bristols. They point well enough. The big problem with cruising racy sailboats, is that most people ruined the performance by putting a windlass, 55lb anchor and 300ft of chain on the bow. Then place a dingy w/15hp in davis on the stern. Now their 15K lb speed machine feels like a pig.

To help with picking a boat you need a price range and length.
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:49   #9
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

Thanks for your input thus far. Yes, know that 5 feet is very shallow draft, but Steady Hand clearly understands the need for that given my location. A swing keel would be a solution to that problem and worth the extra maintenance issues. Pearson made a variable keel boat in their 39 model and Tartan has made some also. I would consider those boats.

I should have indicated my price range in my original post. I am looking at 50K to 100K at the very top. Somewhere around 60-75K is where I would expect to end up. Of course the price depends upon what I might have to add in the way of SSB, sails, dingy and davits etc.
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:58   #10
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

What's the budget? Not to be crass, but it's really not possible to make a suggestion without knowing this. Probably my ideal boat right now would be a Pogo 12.50, but while it is a reasonable price for a 40' and with the euro getting weaker, even more reasonable, it is still a big chunk of change.

On a more restricted budget something like a Beneteau 381 depending on draft, or the new Sense models. But if you get to the more expensive ones I would jump to the Pogo instead...
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Old 11-06-2016, 12:12   #11
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

I am researching Beneteaus but I do not understand the differences between the different models. I get the impression that the "first" models are better performers. Can someone help me understand the differences?

Thanks
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Old 11-06-2016, 13:18   #12
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptThunder View Post
I am researching Beneteaus but I do not understand the differences between the different models. I get the impression that the "first" models are better performers. Can someone help me understand the differences?

Thanks
That's about it. The First models are marketed for a target market of sailors who like to do club or PHRF racing, using a cruising capable boat.

The First models have marginally different hardware (performance gear), slightly different features, aimed at the buyer who is looking for a "cruiser/racer." As for the difference in actual performance, ask an owner. But, my suspicion is that there is not much difference in speed for what you have in mind, namely shorthanded cruising races. (though the First model may have a deeper keel, so check specs).
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Old 11-06-2016, 13:24   #13
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

Here is a link to a Google Custom Search of CF for the search term "HAKE" which is the Manufacturer name for the Seaward brand of boats (recently merged with Island Packet as I recall).

If you do not already know about them, check them out. They are designed for the Florida market of shallow waters, have several unusual features, and are made in Florida and may be in your price range for a used one. There are differences of opinion on them, but from what I have seen they are appealing for that location. NOTE: there was one thread about one owner having a problem with rudder, so read the threads. Make your own decision. The "Rising Keel" and "rising rudders" make sense for shallow water.

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=011403...ake&gsc.page=1
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Old 11-06-2016, 13:50   #14
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

Thunder, your criteria are, to some degree, self contradictory. That is, short mast, shallow draft, good pointing and overall good performance. Not a likely combination IMO.

So, I'd think that you need to prioritize your criteria a bit. Is the low air draft a truly limiting factor? Is there a bridge (or two) that you s imply must get under? Same with draft. Once you set some numbers to those criteria, you can rule out any design that fails the test. Then you get to the performance issue, and here I suggest that you download a set of PHRF ratings. These, while not perfect, give you a fairly objective value for all around performance, and will allow you to compare the speediness of different designs. I thinkk you will find some big differences between some of your examples, for instance The Beneteau 38 rates 102 seconds/mile, the Bene First 40 36 s/m and the Cabo rico 38 177 s/m. This is a huge difference in performance... huge!

So, I reckon that you have a lot of head scratching and re-thinking to do, and that it will be difficult to find a boat that meets all measures, especially when you throw a somewhat limited budget into the mix. When you come up with some specific choices, there are plenty of folks here who will give opinions about them. Some of those may be accurate and useful, some will be ill-educated drivel, but with some luck, you should be able to sort out the difference!

Good luck... I think your goals are reasonable and appropriate... just difficult to attain!

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Old 11-06-2016, 13:55   #15
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Re: A cruiser you can race????

1987 Beneteau First 435 sailboat for sale in South Carolina
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