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Old 22-04-2013, 07:21   #16
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May be tough in your price range, but I singlehand my luders 33 all the time. A great sailing classic, and has high headroom and much bigger accommodations than an Alberg 30. I converted mine from wheel to tiller.
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Old 22-04-2013, 07:25   #17
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May be tough in your price range, but I singlehand my luders 33 all the time. A great sailing classic, and has high headroom and much bigger accommodations than an Alberg 30. I converted mine from wheel to tiller.
Forgot to mention I got my luders for under 16K with a new yammer recently installed
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Old 22-04-2013, 07:29   #18
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

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Do you have any recommendations?? Thanks for the post!
No I don't really have any recommendations, I live in europe and am therefore not "up to snuff" about what boats are available in the US. I would imagine that virtually those boats named would be suitable for sailing around the Caribbean, especially if you're careful regarding the weather. Certainly boats like the Albin are sailed around the Baltic all the time (I've done so), and I would submit that the Baltic is a more challenging environment than the Caribbean.

As I noted, I would make the headroom a non-negotiable ultimatum. you will not be happy crawling around all day. And should you happen to find some sweet young woman and invite her back home for night - she might think it "cute" for 1 night, but not thereafter. Women generally like to be able to stand up when brushing their hair etc.

Which brings up another point. You should have a toilet and a holding tank. Buckets get old real fast - been there - done that. Women generally don't find buckets fascinating either (at least for that use - if you want to read about buckets, join the International Bucketeers Squadron (on this forum), everything you ever wanted to know about buckets and more, including free bucket porn).

To satisfy the above requirements, you might need to look at something in the 30 foot range. If you can single-hand a 27 footer, you can single- hand a 30 footer.

Good luck
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Old 22-04-2013, 09:30   #19
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

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Could you share your recommendations on the Vancouver 27? Would be grateful.
Would love to: I have found no flaws so far as I'm concerned. A large 27' in terms of livability and can handle being loaded down with gear. Easily comfortable for 2 long-term. Could probably handle 3 without much issue. 4 if young. Probably a touch faster than it's reputation has for it and very easy to sail. Outboard rudder is substantial and simple. Rigging is oversized (9/32). A cutter rig with twin backstays and twin running backstays. Small cockpit that can entertain 4 with the tiller up. Most importantly, IMO she's built to handle things in stride in a way that very few boats under 30ft are (without serious modifications). Quality throughout and good access to everything. Headroom is 6'1" in the salon. High freeboard for a boat this size, which can be a good or bad thing depending who you ask.

Vancouver 27: Pocket Voyager - Features, Boat Reviews and Boat Tests - Boats.com

Purchased in NC in the fall of 2011. There was one for sale in VA recently, though most live in the UK. Seems like there's always a few Canadian built V27s for sale in the BC area. Difference between the Canadian and UK-built V27s is chiefly a bit of tumblehome in the UK ones, making her a sliver more stable. The production line starting in Canada and so the Canadian boats tend to have a few more years behind them (late 70s) and tend to go for about $15-$20. Mine is UK Pheon-built from 82 at $30.

There is a strong argument to be made that one could have bought a larger boat, say a well-found Southern Cross 31, for the same price. If I was doing it all over again, it would certainly be tempting to get a few more feet out of the deal. I'm not sure I would though. If I were going to raise of family on the water, a bigger boat might reluctantly be needed.

I was strongly considering a HR Monsun 31 but the 5'10" headroom was a deal-breaker. I second others in saying standing headroom is a luxury I would not want to do without living aboard. I'm 6'1" and know the difficulty in finding pocket cruisers suited to this requirement, but it's worth it. In a pinch, there are cabin sole modifications that could potentially be done to give you a few more inches if needed.
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Old 22-04-2013, 09:42   #20
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

any of the boats you mention will be OK in the Bahamas and Caribe... provided they are in good condition. Maybe you should concentrate on that goal rather than think about "round the world" for now. A couple things: A protected rudder is a plus but not absolutely necessary. A few of your list have that. Another thing; If you pick one with an enclosed ballast keel rather than bolt on keel, that wil be another thing you dont have to worry about. Maybe add a Yankee 30 to your list, great old boats with good sailing characteristics. Not sure if they have bolt on keel or internal ballast. Most of the boats you listed will outsail a Westsail in light air or up wind. If the performance of a WS is acceptable, then even a shallow draft boat like an Allmand 31 will do the job for you and be inexpensive. (One of the biggest 31 footers inside around)
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Old 22-04-2013, 09:45   #21
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

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Also love to cook, am 6' 2", and prefer a tiller.
If you're 6'2" and want to live aboard, than you've started with the wrong list entirely.

I'm 6'3", and can assure you that most boats advertising 6'2" headroom are prevaricating. There might be one tiny spot at the bottom of the companionway where you can stand with your shoes off.

Seriously, do yourself a favor; get rid of the Atom Voyages list and start looking at newer designs. Headroom wasn't designed into smaller boats until about 20 years ago.
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Old 22-04-2013, 09:55   #22
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

I have a cal 2-27 and can stand up in the cabin just fine. Handles great and is very forgiving. I bought it for like 3.5k and have so far put about 10 into it. will probably have another 10 in it by the time the interior is completed and new sails are ordered.

basically bought the boat for the hull and stick knowing I would have to refit everything. I ripped it all out.
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Old 22-04-2013, 09:57   #23
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

If a do over was in place, I would go for 35 foot or so as it would not cost me much more in...example

stove cost is stove cost.
paint increase is marginal
slip fees, i am currently in a 35 foot slip, so same fee to store
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Old 22-04-2013, 10:12   #24
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

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I have a cal 2-27 and can stand up in the cabin just fine. Handles great and is very forgiving. I bought it for like 3.5k and have so far put about 10 into it. will probably have another 10 in it by the time the interior is completed and new sails are ordered.
Fascinating. When the Cal 2-27 came out they advertised 6' headroom.

Is it safe to guess you're shorter than the OP?
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Old 22-04-2013, 10:20   #25
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

OP: just be tenacious in watching the market, the great deals on good boats come up and sell fast, the low priced boats that never seem to sell usually have a reason.
I dilly dallied a few months ago, and didnt buy an Islander 37 PH. About all it needed was upholstery , a stove, TLC and new lifelines. Sails, gear, furling, rigging was recent. $9000....arghhh.... still kicking myself....
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Old 22-04-2013, 10:34   #26
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

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Fascinating. When the Cal 2-27 came out they advertised 6' headroom.

Is it safe to guess you're shorter than the OP?
Gotcha. I must have missed the height...actually, not really thought about measurement. I was thinking standing headroom. I'm 5'11" and with shoes, don't have to bend over. Yeah, I bet that at 6'3" there would be a bit of bending over

....sorry about that, thanks for catching it Bash.

OP....Dont buy the cal 27 or your have a crooked neck
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Old 22-04-2013, 11:42   #27
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

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Would love to: I have found no flaws so far as I'm concerned.
... Quality throughout and good access to everything. Headroom is 6'1" in the salon. High freeboard for a boat this size, which can be a good or bad thing depending who you ask.
... There is a strong argument to be made that one could have bought a larger boat, say a well-found Southern Cross 31, for the same price.
... In a pinch, there are cabin sole modifications that could potentially be done to give you a few more inches if needed.
Thanks for the reply! Also, the SC31 is just a beautiful boat. And a double-ender! Anyone know the headroom? Web seems to think around 6'2"... I'm going to research the sole mods.


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Maybe you should concentrate on that goal rather than think about "round the world" for now
... Another thing; If you pick one with an enclosed ballast keel rather than bolt on keel, that wil be another thing you dont have to worry about. Maybe add a Yankee 30 to your list, great old boats with good sailing characteristics.
...If the performance of a WS is acceptable, then even a shallow draft boat like an Allmand 31 will do the job for you and be inexpensive. (One of the biggest 31 footers inside around)
Yeah, definitely not planning a circumnavigation (at least, not in the immediate future). I've heard a few things about the difference between a bolt-on and enclosed. I'll do more research on it. I'll do some harder looking at the Yankee and Allmand... which I think has 6'4" headroom!
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Old 22-04-2013, 12:01   #28
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

formosa has 6'4 headroom....nothing needing a neonatal monkey that was trained intra-utero to fix internal workings of boats..lol...
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Old 22-04-2013, 12:06   #29
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

we can start the arguements now:

enclosed versus bolt on keel - all those infavor of enclosed please stand to my right, the rest to my left

in keel mast or rooftop? - in keel mast people to my right please, rest to my left

fiberglas, steel or aluminum? - fiberglass to my right, steel to my left, aluminum just step back a bit please

multihull or mono? - multis right, monos left

which anchor? Duhhhh don't have enough sides to separate youse all.

guns on bords - yes and no - please just stand far enough from each other that the killing instinct doesn't get excited

choice of bucket? Yeaaaah - take one of each

good, we're through the list and the OP can now go find a boat.

Seriously, a modern production boat will take anything you can throw at it and more - don't worry about that. Find yourself something with enough headroom, a toilet, that sails fairly well and that you like to look at. If it meets all those criteria - it's a great boat
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Old 22-04-2013, 12:21   #30
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Re: A bluewater live-aboard for under $20k

My recommendation is the series of books by the Pardeys.
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