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Old 19-05-2012, 22:59   #1
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7/8 vs Masthead Jib

Is there any significant difference between a 7/8 jib and a full masthead jib performance or is it a quirk in the IOR rating wars??
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Old 20-05-2012, 00:23   #2
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

Fractionals allow you to add a little more prebend to the stick (via the back stay) as a general rule. Obviously, the headsails are smaller and more manageable on a lunging foredeck. This comes at a cost of less foresail area up high of course.

Fractionals arent "generally" appropriate for cutter rigs due to minimized space.
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Old 20-05-2012, 03:02   #3
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

i did some deepsea miles in a farr 38 and found a reef in the main it become a snug rig for up to 35knts of wind,with a furler it is something to thingk about as a cruising rig.
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Old 20-05-2012, 17:10   #4
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

Our rig is closer to a 3/4 height jib and has swept-back spreaders. Performance is excellent, the genoa is small enough to be handleable, and in general I like it... EXCEPT that it uses runners! After about 40,000 miles in this boat, I must say that I would not deliberately design a cruising rig that needed runners in normal sailing. They're ok for supporting an inner forestay/staysail in heavy wx, since then one is usually reefed to the point that both runners can be left set, but they are a PITA for shorthanded cruising.

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Old 20-05-2012, 17:21   #5
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

Comparing the IOR/large headsail/skinny tall mainsail rig to the 7/8 rig for cruising is interesting. Seems like if you had a headsail furled 7/8 rig with a powerful (full batten?) main....your depowering scheme would be reefing the main. This sounds like a great plan as partially furled headsails dont set well in my experience anyway. Then when you get to 2 reefs, you could just put a shallow fulrl/reef in the 7/8 headsail.
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Old 20-05-2012, 18:18   #6
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

I like a fractional rig for shorthanded sailing since it is easier to handle a larger main and smaller headsails. Tacking a boat with a smaller headsail/larger main is so much easier. Most fractional rigs boats will sail just fine under main alone, which comes in handy when sailing in harbors and other restricted areas. And you also have the ability to use mast bend more readily to flatten and depower the main, which means a reef can come later. More economical too, since the only sail that is relatively large is the main, everything else including spinnakers is smaller.

I am not sure when runners become necessary. I suppose for offshore sailing, they may be needed on really big boats, but with swept back spreaders, the upper shrouds make runners unnecessary on most boats.

I think the only disadvantage of a fractional rig is that they do not point as well in general as mastheads on the same hull, but for cruising that is almost irrelevant, since the difference is not more than a couple of degrees.

My preference must be in the minority, since cruisers with fractional rigs are so rare.
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Old 20-05-2012, 19:10   #7
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

I like fractionals as many of them seem to pack more SA into the main, which helps when driving on broad reach without the kite. This does not apply to 7/8 all that much though.

Why masthead got so popular in cruising circles gods only know as in its basic form it is one of the horribliest ;-) splits.

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Old 20-05-2012, 21:20   #8
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

So there really are others who would prefer to cruise with a fractional rig. Nice to know, I thought I was alone.

Problem still is, it seems like one would have to have a one-off designed to get one, because everything I know of is masthead.

Are there any production boats with fractional rigs?
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Old 20-05-2012, 21:44   #9
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

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Originally Posted by speedoo View Post
So there really are others who would prefer to cruise with a fractional rig. Nice to know, I thought I was alone.

Problem still is, it seems like one would have to have a one-off designed to get one, because everything I know of is masthead.

Are there any production boats with fractional rigs?
Most of the European production boats are fractional (ie, Bendies, Bavarias etc) as are many Hunters in the states.

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Old 20-05-2012, 22:20   #10
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

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Most of the European production boats are fractional (ie, Bendies, Bavarias etc) as are many Hunters in the states.

Cheers,

Jim
True, I just found a bunch of Beneteaus and Hunters with fractional rigs, from 30 feet or so up into the 45 foot range. But all of them seem to be barely fractional, like 15/16, and I don't see a lot of advantage in that kind of rig.

One boat that could be cruised with a fractional rig is the J30. I think it's a 7/8 rig and a newer one with the bigger galley could be a decent coastal cruiser. Very fast 30 footer.

Also there are apparently some Pearson Tritons that have fractional rigs.
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Old 21-05-2012, 09:50   #11
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

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So there really are others who would prefer to cruise with a fractional rig. Nice to know, I thought I was alone.

Problem still is, it seems like one would have to have a one-off designed to get one, because everything I know of is masthead.

Are there any production boats with fractional rigs?
Check out Athena 34. They are very nice, very fast cruising boats. Not quite as fast as a J but way easier in the seaway.

b.
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Old 21-05-2012, 10:23   #12
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

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Check out Athena 34. They are very nice, very fast cruising boats. Not quite as fast as a J but way easier in the seaway.

b.
Very nice. There is one for sale in Montana here in the US, unrealistically priced IMO. But it looks like it might be a decent sea boat, with a narrow beam.

Rig looks to be about 5/6, with a pair of swept back lower spreaders, that might make runners unnecessary. Plus another pair of spreaders at the hounds, not swept back. Don't know what the purpose of that upper pair of spreaders is.

Would love to take one on a sea trial.
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Old 21-05-2012, 14:05   #13
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

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Very nice. There is one for sale in Montana here in the US, unrealistically priced IMO.

(...) Don't know what the purpose of that upper pair of spreaders is.
Hard to say if the pricing is off. They are priced 55 - 60k in regular condition elsewhere. Since this quote is in the US I assume it is the haggling price.

The upper spreader adds lateral stiffness to the top.

Here:
http://www.google.es/url?source=imgl...5Q9u3OI6V_bswA
you have the same idea executed AD 2010.

Bloody European fractionals! ;-)

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Old 24-05-2012, 10:43   #14
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Re: 7/8 vs masthead jib

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Hard to say if the pricing is off. They are priced 55 - 60k in regular condition elsewhere. Since this quote is in the US I assume it is the haggling price.

The upper spreader adds lateral stiffness to the top.

Here:
http://www.google.es/url?source=imgl...5Q9u3OI6V_bswA
you have the same idea executed AD 2010.

Bloody European fractionals! ;-)

b.
Whoah, that Beneteau is very interesting. I guess they are not marketing it here in the US, and it's gotta be in the $100 k range, so I would never buy one. But it looks very fast and has great cruising accommodations as well.
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