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Old 26-08-2016, 15:01   #46
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

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They answered you and said they were based in FL and a storm meant a hurricane

Which is when I asked for more detail. Do they mean Cat I hurricane of 64 knots or do they mean Cat V of more than 120 knots, or something in between. That's a big difference.

And I don't understand why you (apparently) think it's an unreasonable question.



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Old 26-08-2016, 15:17   #47
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

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Which is when I asked for more detail. Do they mean Cat I hurricane of 64 knots or do they mean Cat V of more than 120 knots, or something in between. That's a big difference.

And I don't understand why you (apparently) think it's an unreasonable question.



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Mike, I think it a reasonable query, and i too await the answer.

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Old 26-08-2016, 16:01   #48
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

If I remember correctly it goes small craft warning, gale warning, storm warning, followed by hurricane. Chapman's says storm warning is 48 knots and up. A tropical cyclone gets a second square red with black center flag. While an anchor my be big enough to hold in one hundred knots of wind, the changing wind direction of a hurricane is another category altogether. The only anchor I know of with a hurricane rating is an oil rig.
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Old 26-08-2016, 16:12   #49
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

As a manufacturer myself I would say you have them in a corner, by that I mean if you use it in a Storm and it doesn't hold, well then they are wrong, but they cannot control all the possible variables. No reasonable anchor can be expected to hold in a hurricane, even a Cat 1 under all possible scenarios. To claim so would be similar to saying boat X is unsinkable, and we all know better.
I'm betting he is biting his tongue a little right now


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Old 26-08-2016, 16:14   #50
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

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If I remember correctly it goes small craft warning, gale warning, storm warning, followed by hurricane. Chapman's says storm warning is 48 knots and up. A tropical cyclone gets a second square red with black center flag. While an anchor my be big enough to hold in one hundred knots of wind, the changing wind direction of a hurricane is another category altogether. The only anchor I know of with a hurricane rating is an oil rig.

Although I have eyed the power transmission poles in St Andrews bay, I feel one of those just might hold me


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Old 26-08-2016, 17:39   #51
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

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Mike, I think it a reasonable query, and i too await the answer.
Thanks Jim. I thought so. All I want is clarification of the claim.

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As a manufacturer myself I would say you have them in a corner, by that I mean if you use it in a Storm and it doesn't hold, well then they are wrong, but they cannot control all the possible variables. No reasonable anchor can be expected to hold in a hurricane, even a Cat 1 under all possible scenarios. To claim so would be similar to saying boat X is unsinkable, and we all know better.
I'm betting he is biting his tongue a little right now
And I've gone out of my way to try and say all I want is clarification. If Spade mis-spoke, or wants to add more detail, or more provisos, I'm fine with it. I'm not trying to trap them, or cause any sort of problems. People are allowed to make mistakes (at least, in my world).

It is Spade that went out of his/her way to make the "storm" claim. I've never seen an anchor maker make such claim for what appears to me to be a bower-sized anchor, so I was both impressed, and skeptical. My first response was to suggest that they meant Beaufort Storm, which is less than hurricane.

Spade made it clear he/she meant hurricane force, so I then asked the next obvious question -- a question anyone would ask if laying down a thousand bucks for an anchor: Which level of hurricane? As you know, hurricane is a broad range. There's a big difference between 64 knots and 120 knots.

I am confused as to why me asking this question is interpreted harshly. It seems an entirely sensible question -- or are we not allowed to question commercial sponsors who make impressive claims?

I think all CF readers deserve clarification on this. If they really do stand behind this claim, then I REALLY WANT ONE!
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Old 26-08-2016, 20:14   #52
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

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I think all CF readers deserve clarification on this. If they really do stand behind this claim, then I REALLY WANT ONE!
Do remember, Mike, that it is just a claim. If they reiterate the claim, you buy their anchor, use it in a hurricane and loose your boat... what result do you think their claim will produce? I somehow doubt that they will replace your boat...

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Old 27-08-2016, 01:04   #53
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

Forgive me, DDabs, 'cause I'm gonna sound like a kid: Yeah, but, is a hurricane only 60 knots? or is it over 60 knots, and then if it's over, how much???????

Because the demands placed on a storm (Ann's definition, sustained over 80 knots) anchor are tremendous... [Honestly, I've never been in sustained over 80, and don't intend to be, either.]

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Old 27-08-2016, 03:12   #54
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

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How can you watch this video and purchase anything other than a Mantus?

https://youtu.be/Sj_dPrjteGg

BTW... When I was placing my order, I did a Google search for coupon codes and was able to find one for 15% off.

IFISH15
The guy in the video is obviously manipulating each anchor by the way he pulls on them and by the angle of pull. Another thing, we've never anchored on a beach, and probably never will. Also notice how none of the anchors are connected to chain which will alter the angle of attack.

Watch the anchor videos on this forum for a far better demonstration.
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Old 27-08-2016, 06:23   #55
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

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Do remember, Mike, that it is just a claim. If they reiterate the claim, you buy their anchor, use it in a hurricane and loose your boat... what result do you think their claim will produce? I somehow doubt that they will replace your boat...
You're probably right Jim. The corporate lawyers probably told Spade Anchor to stop making these claims in public. So be it ... I'll take his/her silence to mean the model-120 is not to be considered a "storm" anchor for my boat -- which I never expected it to be anyway. Probably fine up to storm conditions (Beaufort Storm, not hurricane storm), which is what a proper bower should do.

Quote:
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Forgive me, DDabs, 'cause I'm gonna sound like a kid: Yeah, but, is a hurricane only 60 knots? or is it over 60 knots, and then if it's over, how much???????

Because the demands placed on a storm (Ann's definition, sustained over 80 knots) anchor are tremendous... [Honestly, I've never been in sustained over 80, and don't intend to be, either.]
Thanks Ann. My question exactly. A hurricane is defined as anything over 63 knots. A Cat. V hurricane is defined as having winds over 137 knots. That's a huge difference. Even a Cat. II hurricane is defined as 83-95 knots. I too have never felt 83 knots on my boat, nor do I want to. But if a 55# Spade anchor can hold my boat (with proper set, in proper substate, with proper rode), even at that level, then I do want one.

... but I don't believe it can. And the silence from Spade reinforces my conclusion.
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Old 27-08-2016, 06:30   #56
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

So.... the search continues for a suitable hurricane anchor?
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Old 27-08-2016, 06:39   #57
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

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Take a walk around and start looking at anchors, it seems at least in my neck of the woods, bent shafts and flukes are not that uncommon, and the eventual result of actually using a zinc coated steel anchor will result in the zinc being worn away, if not being eaten away as it is one big anode.
But I think many are like me, if the zinc wears away in a reasonable time I wouldn't file a claim, that is fair wear and tear, and to be honest, I do not keep receipts.
People drill the holes of course to pin them to the boat, I considered it myself, and didn't based largely on figuring how hard it would be to drill, glad I didn't now, seemed like a good idea at the time


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I've yet to see a bent Ultra anchor shaft, and there are more of them in use here in the eastern Med.
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Old 27-08-2016, 07:11   #58
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

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So.... the search continues for a suitable hurricane anchor?
I suppose so ... I wasn't asking about a storm anchor to begin with, so it's not top of my needs list. I began this banter with a simple question about which Spade would be appropriate for my odd-ball boat. I like the look of them, and have been thinking about going one size up on my current bower, which is a Rocna 25 (55#). It has never let me down, but I'm pretty sure my system could handle the next size up without much struggle, so why not?

I'd seriously consider an over-sized Spade as my storm, especially an aluminum one, although it's probably out of my price range (even with the great discount offered by Spade). I currently carry a Fortress (F-37), which is a couple of sizes over their bower recommendation. But I prefer the new-gen anchors in general.
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Old 27-08-2016, 07:14   #59
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

When switching to aluminum, does the sizing chart change? Sorry if this is a stupid question.
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Old 27-08-2016, 07:48   #60
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Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

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When switching to aluminum, does the sizing chart change? Sorry if this is a stupid question.
Good question ... according to Spade website: "All SPADE anchors of the same size, regardless of the material they are made of, will work with the same efficiency."

This makes sense to me since weight is not what you are ultimately holding on, it is surface area and the ability to dig into the substrate. Weight does help with setting though, as does weight distribution and shape.
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