Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-08-2016, 16:51   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
Symphony's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ct
Boat: ex-Tartan4100, now MS34 sedan
Posts: 460
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

hmmm... my mfgr chart said 35# was enough for a 40' boat. I've also seen people who recommend double that. I do know that my 45# CQR has been fine for me over many years except in thick grass or hard scrabble.

I wouldn't use my windlass to break the anchor out of the bottom or haul up 100 lbs of mud. You'll ruin the motor bearing. I don't want to need a 5kW windlass either, my little Lewmar V2 is great for the chain and anchor I have, everything in proportion. Smaller wires to power it, lower battery load, less charging time, etc.
I also use a snubber to save stress on the windlass.
__________________

__________________
Symphony
Currently cruising Indian Ocean
Symphony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2016, 19:47   #17
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,022
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

This discussion, and the other recent anchor thread, highlights to me a basic difference between some folk. Once again, it comes down to risk assessment.

Going way over-sized is great for that rare storm event where you get caught with your proverbial pants down. At that point you'll be glad to have a three of four-times oversized anchor down. But for the vast majority of time you'll be dealing with a way over-sized hunk of metal that will make anchoring a PITA. Human nature being what it is, I predict this will result in poorer anchoring for most people much of the time, but for that rare event, it will be great.

So, do you set up your bower for a broad spectrum of normal? Or do you try to cover everything with one anchor? It's practical, aesthetical and philosophical question that can only be answered individually. There is not absolute Right Answer.

I prefer to think of my anchors in stages. I have my bower for most conditions (I've suggested normal x 3). I carry a storm anchor for when the weather dudes tell me all hell is going to break loose. And I carry a stern/kedge, plus another couple of spares for circumstances unknown.

Asking one anchor to do it all seems unwise to me. But I suspect I am comfortable with a higher level of risk than most people these days. It's all very interesting reading...


Why go fast, when you can go slow
__________________

__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 06:59   #18
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Spade Anchor's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Palm Bay Florida
Posts: 248
Images: 2
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

The fact that you have to buy 1 to 2 sizes bigger than the recommended size, says you do not have a lot of faith in the design of that anchor, or at least little faith in the manufacturer's recommendation.
Research an anchor company that you feel will be a great storm anchor that is the recommended size.
__________________
Spade Anchor USA & Canada
SpadeAnchorUSA.com
321-409-5714
Contact US
All CrusiersForum.com Members Receive a 10% Discount. Must Call when Ordering to Redeem.
Spade Anchor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 07:24   #19
Registered User
 
DDabs's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. George's, Grenada
Boat: Caliber 40LRC
Posts: 1,505
Images: 16
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

85 lb. Mantus on a Jeanneau 409? LOL give me a BREAK! I think you made a good choice, I have the 65 and I love it.
__________________
DDabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 08:07   #20
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,022
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade Anchor View Post
The fact that you have to buy 1 to 2 sizes bigger than the recommended size, says you do not have a lot of faith in the design of that anchor, or at least little faith in the manufacturer's recommendation.
Research an anchor company that you feel will be a great storm anchor that is the recommended size.
Just looked at your sizing chart. As usual, my boat does not fit neatly into any slot. I am a 37-foot boat, which by your chart would mean a model-80 (33#), but my displacement is 30,000# which would make it a model-120 (55#), but this is the size suggested for boat lengths of 59 feet.

I love your anchors, and would seriously consider purchasing one (if I could afford it ), but I'm curious as to what size you'd recommend I get as a bower for my boat?
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 08:22   #21
Registered User
 
DDabs's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. George's, Grenada
Boat: Caliber 40LRC
Posts: 1,505
Images: 16
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

I think a 33 lb. would be a little undersized for your setup Mike. I'm sure a 55 or 65 would be more than sufficient.
__________________
DDabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 08:36   #22
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Spade Anchor's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Palm Bay Florida
Posts: 248
Images: 2
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Just looked at your sizing chart. As usual, my boat does not fit neatly into any slot. I am a 37-foot boat, which by your chart would mean a model-80 (33#), but my displacement is 30,000# which would make it a model-120 (55#), but this is the size suggested for boat lengths of 59 feet.

I love your anchors, and would seriously consider purchasing one (if I could afford it ), but I'm curious as to what size you'd recommend I get as a bower for my boat?
Based on your weight the correct size is the S120 model. That will be the correct size for a primary/storm/lunch Spade Anchor.

All CrusiersForum.com members receive a 10% discount when purchasing.

Also the Spade anchor comes with a lifetime warranty that has backing (20+ years in business). Our warranty means once you purchase a Spade Anchor, you will never need to purchase a new anchor again. Any rust, bending or anything the planet can throw at your anchor is covered by the lifetime warranty. When considering price, weigh in the warranty.
__________________
Spade Anchor USA & Canada
SpadeAnchorUSA.com
321-409-5714
Contact US
All CrusiersForum.com Members Receive a 10% Discount. Must Call when Ordering to Redeem.
Spade Anchor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 09:32   #23
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,022
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade Anchor View Post
Based on your weight the correct size is the S120 model. That will be the correct size for a primary/storm/lunch Spade Anchor.

All CrusiersForum.com members receive a 10% discount when purchasing.

Also the Spade anchor comes with a lifetime warranty that has backing (20+ years in business). Our warranty means once you purchase a Spade Anchor, you will never need to purchase a new anchor again. Any rust, bending or anything the planet can throw at your anchor is covered by the lifetime warranty. When considering price, weigh in the warranty.
Many thanks SA, including the info on the discount. I'll add up the boat bucks at the end of our season and see if it can fit in my Santa stocking .

But for clarity, which you say the 120 is a storm anchor, do you mean "storm" as in beaufort storm (48 to 63 knots), or do you mean STORM as in hurricane (64+ knots)? I believe a bower should be able to hold up through 60 knots. Beyond that I'd be putting down additional anchors/ties/whatever the heck I can do.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 09:57   #24
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Spade Anchor's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Palm Bay Florida
Posts: 248
Images: 2
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Many thanks SA, including the info on the discount. I'll add up the boat bucks at the end of our season and see if it can fit in my Santa stocking .

But for clarity, which you say the 120 is a storm anchor, do you mean "storm" as in beaufort storm (48 to 63 knots), or do you mean STORM as in hurricane (64+ knots)? I believe a bower should be able to hold up through 60 knots. Beyond that I'd be putting down additional anchors/ties/whatever the heck I can do.
We are located in Florida so we classify a storm, as a hurricane 60+ knots.
__________________
Spade Anchor USA & Canada
SpadeAnchorUSA.com
321-409-5714
Contact US
All CrusiersForum.com Members Receive a 10% Discount. Must Call when Ordering to Redeem.
Spade Anchor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 11:24   #25
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,022
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade Anchor View Post
We are located in Florida so we classify a storm, as a hurricane 60+ knots.
So all I have to do is properly set my 120 Spade (with adequate rode) and I will hold through anything including a category V hurricane? That's quite the claim -- not one I would want to test with my own boat .

Still love your anchor. Hope to get one and put it to the test.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 12:16   #26
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,618
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade Anchor View Post
Our warranty means once you purchase a Spade Anchor, you will never need to purchase a new anchor again. Any rust, bending or anything the planet can throw at your anchor is covered by the lifetime warranty.
Thanks Spade

I think anchor warranties are important. Many anchor manufacturers offer a "lifetime warranty" but fail to mention that the warrantee does not cover bending or deformation. As any anchor can bend if caught in rock, and this is the most likely problem this is a very important distinction.

The Spade anchor is one of the very strongest (if not the strongest) so their traditional view of not covering bending has been a puzzle. It is great to bending is now covered .

However, I am a bit puzzled by your comments about corrosion. No manufacturer has ever covered galvanised anchors for "normal" corrosion. In other words if you could prove the galvanising was "defective" (although this obviously very difficult to establish) all reputable manufacturer would (theoretically) cover this under the provision of "manufacturing defect". I think this is of little value in practice, as it so hard to prove.

If a galvanised anchor corrodes after a reasonable time it is normally deemed "fair wear and tear" and would not be covered by covered under any current anchor warranty. I don't think this is anyway unreasonable, but cruisers like myself that anchor close to full time in hard substrates find the galvanising is short lived. My New Zealand Rocna needed regalvanising after only three years. The Mantus is holding up better, the life is hard to estimate at the moment, but if it lasts 50% longer that is still less than 5 years.

A galvanised anchor with a lifetime warranty on corrosion would be very attractive (I plan on cruising a long time ), but no manufacturers so far has offered this.

So the specific questions:

1. If a Spade anchors gets caught on a rock, or another boat runs into the anchor while you are berthed in the marina. Would a bent anchor (or the bent part shank or fluke) be replaced at no charge? There is no question of defect, just accidental damage.
2. A galvanised Spade has significant corrosion. Once again there is no question of a defective product, just fair wear and tear. Would it be replaced?
3. Does the above apply only to new anchors, or is it retrospective applying to anchors already purchased?
4. Does it apply only to the original owner, or if the boat is sold does the warranty transfer to the new owner?
5. Finally, in the above cases, if the anchors covered under warranty does the part need to be sent back or is a photograph sufficient proof? What about delivery costs?

I understand that the warranties offered by some anchor manufacturers are very generous. If I accidentally drive my boat I to the rocks I don't expect the manufacturer to repair or replace the boat at no charge. Some anchor manufacturers will do just that which makes the warranty more like insurance rather than normal warranty.

Likewise if my galvanised chain corrodes no chain manufacturer would replace it unless I could establish the galvanising was defective. I don't expect any anchor manufacturer to do this, but your posts suggests Spade might be willing to replace the anchor. This would be an industry first.
__________________
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 13:22   #27
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Spade Anchor's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Palm Bay Florida
Posts: 248
Images: 2
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

Answers in RED


Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Thanks Spade

I think anchor warranties are important. Many anchor manufacturers offer a "lifetime warranty" but fail to mention that the warrantee does not cover bending or deformation. As any anchor can bend if caught in rock, and this is the most likely problem this is a very important distinction.

The Spade anchor is one of the very strongest (if not the strongest) so their traditional view of not covering bending has been a puzzle. It is great to bending is now covered . The Spade Anchor Lifetime Warranty covers bending for the Stainless and Galvanized models.

However, I am a bit puzzled by your comments about corrosion. No manufacturer has ever covered galvanised anchors for "normal" corrosion. In other words if you could prove the galvanising was "defective" (although this obviously very difficult to establish) all reputable manufacturer would (theoretically) cover this under the provision of "manufacturing defect". I think this is of little value in practice, as it so hard to prove.

If a galvanised anchor corrodes after a reasonable time it is normally deemed "fair wear and tear" and would not be covered by covered under any current anchor warranty. I don't think this is anyway unreasonable, but cruisers like myself that anchor close to full time in hard substrates find the galvanising is short lived. My New Zealand Rocna needed regalvanising after only three years. The Mantus is holding up better, the life is hard to estimate at the moment, but if it lasts 50% longer that is still less than 5 years.

A galvanised anchor with a lifetime warranty on corrosion would be very attractive (I plan on cruising a long time ), but no manufacturers so far has offered this. We do!
A Spade Anchor is covered by the lifetime warranty for any amount of rust that the customer deems unacceptable. We do not have to determine anything it is up to you the customer to determine if your anchor is acceptable. What good is a lifetime warranty if the customer can not use it?
So the specific questions:

1. If a Spade anchors gets caught on a rock, or another boat runs into the anchor while you are berthed in the marina. Would a bent anchor (or the bent part shank or fluke) be replaced at no charge? There is no question of defect, just accidental damage. Yes, it will be replaced. The only charge is the customer pays for shipping. Aluminum shanks are the only item not covered for bending. When purchasing any aluminum models the customer is made away of that fact.
2. A galvanized Spade has significant corrosion. Once again there is no question of a defective product, just fair wear and tear. Would it be replaced? Yes, the customer must provide original invoice and pay for shipping.
3. Does the above apply only to new anchors, or is it retrospective applying to anchors already purchased? It applies to all Spade Anchors ever produced.
4. Does it apply only to the original owner, or if the boat is sold does the warranty transfer to the new owner? The warranty will transfer but the new owner must have the original invoice. Or at time of purchase they can request one directly from us.
5. Finally, in the above cases, if the anchors covered under warranty does the part need to be sent back or is a photograph sufficient proof? What about delivery costs? We ask for photos, then after the item is replaced the old item must be sent in to us. Customer must pay for shipping.

I understand that the warranties offered by some anchor manufacturers are very generous. If I accidentally drive my boat I to the rocks I don't expect the manufacturer to repair or replace the boat at no charge. Some anchor manufacturers will do just that which makes the warranty more like insurance rather than normal warranty.

Likewise if my galvanised chain corrodes no chain manufacturer would replace it unless I could establish the galvanising was defective. I don't expect any anchor manufacturer to do this, but your posts suggests Spade might be willing to replace the anchor. This would be an industry first. As usual Spade Anchor is an innovator. Although we do not view this as new, our view is that this is how any quality business should operate. With over 20 years in business our warranty is a source of pride for us at Spade Anchor and we welcome you to get that warm fuzzy feeling a sound night of sleep on the hook should provide.
__________________
Spade Anchor USA & Canada
SpadeAnchorUSA.com
321-409-5714
Contact US
All CrusiersForum.com Members Receive a 10% Discount. Must Call when Ordering to Redeem.
Spade Anchor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 13:24   #28
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Spade Anchor's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Palm Bay Florida
Posts: 248
Images: 2
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

We are really not playing around when it comes to our warranty! If your product is something you believe in then your warranty should reflect that.

THE ONLY THING THAT THE CONSUMER CAN DO TO VOID THE WARRANTY IS TO DRILL A HOLE IN THE ANCHOR!
__________________
Spade Anchor USA & Canada
SpadeAnchorUSA.com
321-409-5714
Contact US
All CrusiersForum.com Members Receive a 10% Discount. Must Call when Ordering to Redeem.
Spade Anchor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 14:41   #29
Moderator
 
noelex 77's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Living on dirt waiting for our new yacht to be built.
Boat: Half built Bestevaer.
Posts: 10,618
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

Thanks for making that clear and Wow!

A galvanised anchor that is covered for corrosion is quite an amazing offer. This is certainly an industry first.

Many anchor manufacturers offer a "lifetime warranty", but there is a very important distinction between those manufacturers that exclude bending and the others. For Spade to cover bending is great but to also cover corrosion of galvanised anchors is groundbreaking. Wear and depletion of the zinc coating leading eventually to rust on a galvanised anchor is something every purchaser would expect. For this to be covered by a warranty is exceedingly generous.

Congratulations Spade.

Especially for cruising sailors that anchor a lot, this should feature heavily in their buying decision. Compared to the expense and trouble of trying to have an anchor regalvanised, especially in remote places, it is a significant advantage.
__________________
noelex 77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 14:41   #30
Registered User
 
epiic's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Boat: Jeanneau 409
Posts: 246
Re: 55 or 65lb Mantus Anchor for my 2015 Jeanneau 409?

How can you watch this video and purchase anything other than a Mantus?

https://youtu.be/Sj_dPrjteGg

BTW... When I was placing my order, I did a Google search for coupon codes and was able to find one for 15% off.

IFISH15
__________________

__________________
2015 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 - 3 Cabin / 2 Head, Shoal Keel, Furling Main, Performance Genoa 135% with Tracks, Folding Prop, Bow Thruster, Air Conditioning, B&G Zeus2 Chartplotter, B&G Autopilot, B&G 4G Radar, B&G ForwardScan Sonar.
epiic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, jeanneau, Mantus

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: New Mantus Anchors 35lb 65lb New Mantus Bridle - SWFL Foreverunstopab Classifieds Archive 0 01-07-2016 17:01
Saga 409 dinghy davits question a22dphd Monohull Sailboats 6 01-03-2016 20:25
OpenCPN for Android Alpha test 4.1.409 bdbcat OpenCPN 117 12-10-2015 02:28
Jeanneau 409 ameehan Our Community 0 10-04-2014 09:37
Jeanneau 409 Good solutions Monohull Sailboats 11 26-05-2013 21:57



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.