40' Irwin (1980) or 37' Endeavour (1980)

[NewCruiser]

I need help/advise from all of you advanced cruisers out there. My husband and I looking at boats to liveaboard for a year and cruise the carribean than possibly on to the Med. Would you recommend either of these two boats for a novice cruising couple looking to see the world?
I value your feedback!

[scook1]

A lot of times, sailors get very caught up with our boats. I do just as much as the next guy. I would recommend the Irwin, despite its rather large size. For most new sailors, I think that a much smaller boat is helpful to learn on because they respond immediately to sail changes and trim. However I understand the urgency and inability to buy a boat for now and learn, then buy a boat to cruise. I have very little experience with Endeavours. Both boats will require a significant amount of maintenance. Also, consider that just two people may not need quite that much room. Just my thoughts, and congratulations on beginning a new adventure,
Spencer

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, NewCruiser.

Both the Irwin’s & Endeavour’s were “economy” boats, built to a price point.
Unless meticulously maintained (or recently ‘refitted’), they will likely be requiring major work. Unless you are capable of (& willing to) doing most of the work yourselves, these boats may turn out much more expensive than anticipated.
Only a thorough survey (& valuation) will reveal whether either of these particular boats will be a bargain, or a money-pit.

[markpj23]

Having shopped both and bought an Endeavour (prev boat) I agree with Gord and would also say that I found the Endeavour build quality to be better than the Irwins. Just MHO....

There are some good Endeavour 40s out there that have already had the fuel tank replaced and the mast step attended to. Know these 2 achilles heels going in and add an E40 to the list of what you are considering. Lots more room for your plans.

Good luck with your search!

[gettinthere]

Endeavour Sailboat Owners Forum

[cruisin' cajuns]

Hi, just ran across your inquiry. We have lived aboard a 1980 Irwin 40 Citation for 10 years. Although some structural shoring has been necessary, the boat has served us well. We have raced her extensively in southern California, having placed first in two Newport-Ensanada races. (probably the cause of the required shoring ) Being a fast boat, we have been able to dodge several storm fronts and plowed through some 40+ knot winds & 14' seas. Our plan is to head south this October.... Costa Rico by Feb. 2011, Panama/San Blas by 2012 and southern Lousisana (home) by 2013. I have no worries about the integrity of the boat, just our ability to keep her moving.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[NewCruiser]

Not surprised that they were built as "economy boats". Our budget is about 40-50K and we want a safe, sea worthy cruising boat that will allow us to travel through the carribean as well as on a longer distance voyage. Although we are both very handy, boat mechanics are still new to us. What things would you say we should pay special attention on a boat from the 80's, or what kinds of re-fits would be the MOST criticial to have addressed before heading out? Do you know of any problems in particular that either the Endeavour's or the Irwin's are known to have?
Look forward to your feedback!

[gettinthere]

many endeavours have the fuel tank in the keel sump. Over time if there is water sitting in the bilge, it will eat the stainless steel tank. Takes about 20 or more years. Mine was just replaced and I am now running a dry bilge so I should be good for another 30 or more years

[cruisin' cajuns]

The structural issues we had, and are common to the Irwin production boats and some other brands, was what is called "beer canning". This is where the chain plates are pulled upward causing the hull to be pulled inward, like crushing a beer can. I eliminated the problem by installing a 1 1/2" diameter stainless bar through the bulkhead and attaching it to the bottom of the two chainplates with u-bolts. Where it goes through the bulkhead is re-inforced with steel plates on both sides. Also, the bulkhead itself is very small above the passage into the forward berth, which was calapsing. I re-enforced it by installing a 1 1/2" stainless angle iron on the forward side with several bolts through the bulkhead. We consistantly race the boat with 6 crew on the high side and the leward rail in the water. No more problems!!! This issue was only on the port side. The starboard side is fine. Just a couple of things to look for....
In 1999 we paid $35,000.00 as a bank re-po and have spent another 35. However 75% was in up-grades, instruments, sails, etc. not repairs. She just got a new hulll and deck paint job and is as sexy as they get!

Kelvin

[Pappy Chris]

Again, again, again, get a thorough survey before you lay down your money. It may cost some but it may save you an undetermined amount of money, or worst case floating around in that little raft waiting to be rescued.

[NewCruiser]

Kelvin, Sounds like you've put a lot of work into your Irwin. Any chance you'll be looking to sell her sometime in the next year or so?

[gunslinger9729]

Hi to the New Cruisers. Have you looked into the Columbias yet. They are a well built boat that you can get a very good example in the 36 to 40 foot range that has been refitted with all the goodies and work done for around 25 to 35,000. That would leave you with lots of money left in your sailing kitty. I just finished working out a deal on one that I will be paying 24,000 for and it has had all the chainplates fixed and reinforced along with the bulkheads strenghed and the deck problims fixed. It also has a new engine, a newer dodger, a much better head installed, radar, autopiolt, etc. It has all new rigging and sails. This just gives you an idea of what you can get for a very reasonable amount. I would definitly agree about getting any boat serveyed. Just an idea.

[cruisin' cajuns]

Not a chance!! Ha! It would be instant divorce from my wife. There's not enough money for her to sell her favorite boat. Now, by the time we get to Louisiana it could be a different story. But that's 2013. We'll keep posting just in case something changes.

Kelvin

[NewCruiser]

Here is a link to the Irwin we're looking at: 1980 Irwin Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - au.yachtworld.com

What are your thoughts?
It appears to have had some upgrades and I like that it's set up to sail single-handed. My concerns (at this point) are: the size of the aft cockpit, I've heard a large cockpit can be a concern if planning a long-distance cruise (although the size would be nice for sleeping under the stars); and the the size of the tanks, both fuel and water. Other boats we've looked at have 100+ gals of water and 50+ gals of fuel. For those who have lived aboard for a year or more, do you think this should be a deal-breaker?
Lastly, how much negotiating room to you think there could be on this boat?

[cruisin' cajuns]

Hi. The boat appears to be in good shape. The swing keel is appealing for negotiating coral reefs, unless it leaves the rudder vulnerable. I like the seperate shower/head modification. Even though the hull looks very simular to ours, we have a completely different interior layout. Don't you love boats? No two are alike. The more recent upgrades are nice. As far as the cockpit size, we love it. Make sure it has adaquate drain(s) and leave the lower door section in place because you will get hit with big seas. Most trips we've taken we've had additional crew on board so the larger cockpit was a godsend.
In addition to what this boat already has, we've added the following to ours: (just to give you some ideas)
Radar - JRC 16 mile range
Water maker - 100 gal/day capacity, 12 V DC
Additional 30 gal. water tank (100 total)
Solar panels - 150 watts total
Wind generator - Air-X 400 watts
Doubled the battery bank capacity
Hydraulic auto pilot independant of the cable steering
SSB Radio transceiver
AIS - Automatic Identification System
Second VHF at the helm
New Adler Baurbar air/water cooled refrigeration for the tropics
Electric dingy davit lifts with automatic emergency launch system
Engine driven air compressor (small, mechanically engaged) for diving
Second large bilge pump (can't have too many)
Two stainless folding bikes (don't laugh)
I'm sure I missed something.......... currently replacing all lighting with
LED (expensive)

Our displacement is now at 22,000 lbs. and we didn't have to move the boot stripe so the hull has great buoyancy.

We still only have 30 gal. fuel capacity. There's room for another 20 gallon rubber bladder so I might consider that.

As far as negotiating the price, I'd offer $40,000.00 and reluctantly meet them halfway. The above list could run in excess of 30 thousand, especially if you hire it done. We have done 95% of the additions ourselves.

Also, does anyone out there have any history with the swing keel? I am curious since I didn't even know Irwin offered that in 1980.

Hope this helps... happy valentine's day

Kelvin