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Old 05-09-2010, 16:44   #16
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Have you considered a Cascade 42/44? The newer 44 is aft cockpit but may not be found in your price range.

The Cal40 doesn't have the skeg but does have a good rep offshore. Some have gone around.

I looked at the Kirk 36 (Amel). Yeah, it's kind of a center cockpit but there's a tiller there directly attached to the rudder. So it's more like they put a little doghouse on the back of the boat for a separate cabin than moving the cockpit foreward.
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:06   #17
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The Albin Nimbus 42 is one of my favorite boats (if not my favorite). I almost bought one a while back, but there were some issues with the one I liked. I looked at a second and it had been well used, so I passed. If you run the theoretical numbers on it (S/D, D/L, capsize, etc.) it looks like a nice well rounded vessel and I love the lines. I did speak with Rob Ladd, one of the designers, when I was looking, and he seemed pretty happy with the design. I have no personal knowledge of the sailing or build quality, but I'd consider one again if I were looking. I have a Bob Perry review of the Albin Nimbus somewhere. I can try and dig it up if you don't already have it.
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Old 06-09-2010, 07:39   #18
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Hello Gerhard-
Yeah - I the numbers on the Albin Nimbus are great - not too heavy, nice SA/D, and good lines - and it has that nice large comfortable cockpit. I found a very used one in USVI and another one up north that I am waiting to get info on. Any info you have would be greatly appreciated. I heard that some Nimbus were built in questionable Taiwan boat yards and others in Sweden - I don't know much about the reliability of individual boat yards and eras (i.e. early 80s in Taiwan) but it would be good to know if a the boats I am considering are poorly built before I spring for a surveyor. Look forward to hearing from you - and it would be great if you can get me the Perry review.
Also - tell me about your Waquiez
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Old 06-09-2010, 16:29   #19
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I think the Nimbus was built in Taiwan while other Albin boats were from Europe. You can get more info on my boat at

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I found the review. Send me your email address (you can do it at that site, or here, or by private message or however you like).
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Old 06-09-2010, 20:03   #20
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Hi Dave-
I would love to be convinced that I am just as safe in a modern Jeanneau as I would be in a heavier displacement boat with a full keel and skeg hung rudder. I sailed a Jeanneau 37 for two years and it is perfect for Biscayne Bay and the Bahamas, but the thought of getting caught in a storm with heavy following sea with that open sugar scoop transom and the free hanging rudder does concern me. Of course there are plenty of stories of Jeanneau's and many other relatively light displacement boats that handled storms, but are they as safe as other models. Again this is all subjective, and as I have become more and more familiar with this forum I realize it is an endless discussion....but I am very open to everyones opinion and would love to believe that I am just as safe in a Jeanneau 42 DS or a Beneteau First 405 as I would be in a Valiant or Caliber or Passport....but the consensus seems to be otherwise....I'll keep reading, gathering info and hearing recommendations but I plan to make a decision soon (4 months) and be out there with the rest of you!
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Old 06-09-2010, 20:34   #21
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Yes you are just as safe there are thousands of beneyeaus and jeaneaus making sea passages. Look at the European experience , virtually nobody here is making a passport and nobody would buy a valient. The French would proclaim loudly you are safer in a quick responsive boat. Remember on the milk run it's light airs performance you need.


There s simply no evidence to suggest that external keels are more vunerable have a look at the Bavaria YouTube of them running their boat repeatedly into rocks etc. We sail in some of the most dangerous waters on the planet remember a lot if us including the french are above 40N some of us well above it yet the long Keel etc boat is virtually non existent. Even halbert rassy and najaid have bowed to the enivitable and have changed to
Spade and fin

For example most boats with sugar scoops have huge openings to the stern which mean the cockpit will drain far faster then an enclosed type with puny internal drains. All these boats have brand name masts deck gear and engines which is more then you can say for some of the chineese make stuff that's masquerades as US

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Old 07-09-2010, 14:50   #22
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I'll take the Valiant. Let the French scoff.

After all, Moitissier did not make his circumavigations in a Jeanneau or Beneteau. He made them in a 37 ft. custom built steel ketch.

Of course he planned at one point when he was destitute to cross the Atlantic in a boat he planned to build out of newspaper and tar, so who knows? Maybe he would have been willing to do it in a Jeanneau or Beneteau.
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Old 07-09-2010, 15:29   #23
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Liza Copeland makes the point in her book, 'Cruising for Cowards' that Beneteau has mostly captured the charter market indicating a durable boat at a decent price.
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Old 07-09-2010, 16:13   #24
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Liza Copeland makes the point in her book, 'Cruising for Cowards' that Beneteau has mostly captured the charter market indicating a durable boat at a decent price.
Sure, just like Chevys and Kias have captured the car rental fleets at Hertz and Avis.
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Old 07-09-2010, 16:29   #25
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We too are looking for a 38-45' BWC under $100,000...
Considering Pearson 424s and 422s. Any thoughts?
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Old 07-09-2010, 16:39   #26
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Valiant 40. No need to look further, IMHO. Just avoid the "blister boats" (hull #249 and below, except for the very first few dozen).

I have one which also fits the bill, but you'll not likely find one easily on the used market: a Bob Perry-designed Golden Wave 42. A bit faster than a Valiant (tall rig), virtually the same underbody, but looks like a Swan above the water.

NOT currently for sale, but in a few years...who knows?

Good luck,

Bill
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Old 07-09-2010, 16:57   #27
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A quick check on the Albin Numbus 42. Nice boat if one was in great shape. There was one 1981 in Tortola for $75K. I really doubt the refit for it could be done on the budget. On paper it's a nice boat but as a 1981 it is a potential money pit. Here is the gap you are building. You need to cast a wider net and concentrate less on brand names and more about the general 40 ft market made up of boats you could actually go see and walk on, that fit your price range, and you could write an offer on. Pick a geographic area you can travel in and start gather more potential choices. You are going to be in serious compromise mode to close on a boat. Learning the ins and outs now will get you a boat you can work on to set sail in a serious time frame.

The starting with brand names approach is pretty painful. You really don't have the budget to be hopping all over the planet to chase down these one boat for sale in any brand / model.

I can see where the Jenneau 37 wouldn't fit. Nice for a one / two week cruise but you really can't load enough stuff in it for a longer trip. You need a lot of displacement to fit all your stuff. It's why a lot of folks would want a 45 ft boat. Think pickup truck not sports car.

I think you need to look more in the categories of heavier displacement boats to hit a budget that would let you do things like new canvas and the assorted refits that you will need in your price range to be comfortable. You will drop a lot of money to set off. A 1981 teak deck would give me pause. I would walk a few more boats and instead of looking at the ratios and numbers. Look at the condition of the boat and prices. It will weed out a lot of wasted time and get you closer to buying a boat. You are on a budget and getting the best boat you can find could work with your eyes looking wider. Theoretical boats just are not for sale.

You are in the used boat market and pedigree after more than 20 years is pretty pointless. Systems well done just are wearing out.
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Old 07-09-2010, 17:44   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Sure, just like Chevys and Kias have captured the car rental fleets at Hertz and Avis.
Might be an accurate analogy of Hertz and Avis were willing to rent to people with limited driving experience, some of whom only had their driver's permits.
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Old 07-09-2010, 21:39   #29
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I guess I need to weigh in on this thread. I have cruised in Island Packets, Catalinas, Bent's and now I own a Valiant. I have seen some good waves and gales in 40 foot IP's and Bents and now my Valiant (see The Straits of Juan..at night thread in Challenges). Please allow me to make the follow observations:
1. Paul B. is correct. Brand name is not as important as the boat. I felt very comfortable on a Oceanis 39 (Bent) scraping off on a lee shore in ten foot swells. Wouldn't have with a Bent 343 in the same conditions. Hull shape and rig is very important to what you want to do. I happen to be sold on cutters. Others like sloops. Learn about what makes a good bluewater boat and don't just take other people's advice.
2. The reason I purchased a Valiant, and then spent lost of $$ restoring it, is that it is tested and retested on the conditions I like to sail and explore in. The passageways are narrow. The beam is relatively narrow. This is so things and people do not get thrown around as much. The same open cabin of a Bent that makes it such a great charter boat makes it dangerous in a violent seaway (in my opinion). I don't know if I get tossed around less in my current boat than I did in say a IP-40, but it seems to handle the waves better and my family says that it is more secure. Could all be in my mind, but I feel like my boat will not break in two during the storm, whereas other boats I was never that sure about. Make sure whatever boat you buy you believe in.
I could go on for a while like this but you get my point. Pick up a copy of Annapolis Book of Sailing and read the chapters on boat design. Then figure out what type of boat you want. That will save you tons of bread
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:17   #30
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Of course he planned at one point when he was destitute to cross the Atlantic in a boat he planned to build out of newspaper and tar, so who knows? Maybe he would have been willing to do it in a Jeanneau or Beneteau.
I can never understand this snobbery against Beneteaus, Jeanneau and Bavaria, have any of you actually sailed these across oceans, I have. The fatc is that we all cant purchase bloody Valients, not enough to go around, not to mention the dodgy build.

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Moitissier did not make his circumavigations in a Jeanneau or Beneteau
He couldnt afford to buy a tent much less a yacht.!

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