38' (+/-) Center Cockpit Sloop / Cutter Recommendations ?

[Lightfin]

Thanks Hansdg.

Why is the centerline bed undesireable???

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by Lightfin

Thanks Hansdg.

Why is the centerline bed undesireable???

It isn't. On a long passage where you have to maintain a watch schedule, the person in the centerline bed might fall out. But, under those circumstances the off-watch person would probably sleep on a settee with a lee cloth anyway. If you are going to cruise the Caribbean, you won't be making long passages. From Florida/Bahamas to South America our longest passage by far was T&C to DR - 23 hrs. If instead, you went west from Florida to Mexico, it would probably be 3 or 4 days to Isla Mujeres. Once you are in the Caribbean the rest is or at least can be glorified day sailing along coasts or from island to island.

[hansdg53]

Originally Posted by Lightfin

Thanks Hansdg.

Why is the centerline bed undesireable???

Yes, when one is underway, you may fall out of the bed, it is not secure. Also there are space considerations. A centerline bed, of reasonable size, limits the spaces on both sides Apart from that it looks nice, I don't really believe a centerline bed offers any significant advantages.

[slomotion]

Well, for old people like me, you sometimes get up one or two times a night. A centerline bed allows you to do so from the sides without having to crawl over your partner.

[SkiprJohn]

I haven't responded to this thread because I really don't like center cockpit boats. I've sailed and visited many and just don't get why people prefer them. Celestial 46 and Cal 2-46 are two that I've done interisland cruises aboard. The 55' Marco Polo had an aft Captain's Cabin but in no way could be considered a modern center cockpit boat. I have to admit I am very prejudiced. Sorry.
The two issues you might want to check out are emergency steering systems and, in my opinion, wasted space under the cockpit.
I didn't care for the size of those boats mentioned and thought them overly large, hard to single-hand and non responsive in light winds. And, of course, their look.
I truly don't want to upset any center cockpit afficienados so please disregard this if you do like center cockpit boats.
Apologetically yours,
JohnL

[The Mons]

As the owner of an athwartship aft berth center cockpit boat, I would like to offer the following information.

The space under the cockpit is usually used as it is in our boat for the engine room. Although our generator is not in the engine room, they are frequently installed there. Our airconditioning unit is positioned above the engine. The fuel tank is also located in the engine room.

The emergency steering unit is an L shaped rod unit that extends through the back deck and cabin to underneath the berth. It appears quite usable although I cannot claim to have had to use it under emergency conditions.

The athwartship berth is very inconvenient to the inside person who wants to leave while in port. It is usable under way by a single person, but requires repositioning in the event of a tack.

Having used the athwartship berth at dock, anchor, and on multiple day cruises, we believe that the centerline berth is a superior arrangement. What you do have to do is position a lee board, lee cloth, or sailbags. If you have a lee board or lee cloth, two people might still be able to use the
berth at the same time.

If the boat is designed well, the areas to the sides of the centerline berth will either be taken up by deck lockers or cabin lockers.

[Lightfin]

Mons, that's an interesting and good description of the pros and cons for your boat and layout. Thanks.

What size and model boat do you own?

[hansdg53]

For me the advantage of a center cockpit is that you have a roomier aft cabin, like in a 38-40, standing room. Also, the engine room generally offers more space. Even on my 38, I have a cavernous engine room, where I can have easy access to the engine and other parts, like the steering system, hot water, etc. Plus, there is plenty of space to fit in a genset and/or watermaker, should one need such items. One more advantage for me is that the traveler is connected to the end of the boom and positioned behind the cockpit for easy control.

The disadvantages: generally smaller main cabin, steeper companionway and smaller cockpit (although I prefer smaller cockpits, but that maybe because I sail usually in Northern Europe where, due to the weather, I prefer to have some sheltered space). Also, when going to weather, the heeling sensation seems more pronounced when sitting in the cockpit.

[irwinsailor]

I know that this is a much larger boat than you are looking for however there may be some ideas that you can use.







Sailing Magazine

[Jeff H]

From the standpoint of a yacht designer, few center cockpit boats were built in lengths below 40 feet because it is very hard to make a center cockpit design work in a boat much under 40-42 feet or so resulting in most of the few CC boats under 40 feet having all kinds of designs issues.

On boats this size the cockpit and passageways end up eating up most of the prime real estate that is required to achieve a liveable interior. To get around that problem the designer of smaller center cockpit boats typically end up having to make some pretty serious compromises such as raising the freeboard and altering the design of the stern in a way that compromises sailing ability and motion comfort in the cockpit, or else going to a walk over rather than a side passage arrangement.

I would suggest that you either consider moving up to a 40 footer or larger, or else drop the requirement for a midships cockpit.

Hughes Northstar made a really nice and comparatively inexpensive S&S designed 40 foot center cockpit boat (called variously the Hughes 40 or the Northstar 80/20) which was available in ketch, sloop or cutter rigs and with full keels or else a keel profile that resembles a Brewer notch. The most desireable version would be the sloop or cutter with a Brewer notch keel.

Respectfully,
Jeff

[hansdg53]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

I haven't responded to this thread because I really don't like center cockpit boats. I've sailed and visited many and just don't get why people prefer them. Celestial 46 and Cal 2-46 are two that I've done interisland cruises aboard. The 55' Marco Polo had an aft Captain's Cabin but in no way could be considered a modern center cockpit boat. I have to admit I am very prejudiced. Sorry.
The two issues you might want to check out are emergency steering systems and, in my opinion, wasted space under the cockpit.
I didn't care for the size of those boats mentioned and thought them overly large, hard to single-hand and non responsive in light winds. And, of course, their look.
I truly don't want to upset any center cockpit afficienados so please disregard this if you do like center cockpit boats.
Apologetically yours,
JohnL

I do not understand why a cc would be performing worse in light winds than a rear cockpit. Light wind performance is more than just a weight issue. I often pass many rear cockpit boats, of bigger size.

[The Mons]

We have a Westerly Corsair 36.

On one side of the engine room, we have a standup sized locker. It houses our generator, generator fuel tank, water tank, and other assorted odds and ends. On the other side, we have the passage way to the aft cabin. Outboard of the passage way where the navigator's berth used to be we have a freezer/refrigerator and storage.

Some other center cockpit boats elect to have a passage way and storage on one side and a head on the other. Still others have the galley alongside the passageway.

The mainsheet directly behind the helm is also convenient unless it isn't tied off. Sometimes people accidentally sit on the mainsheet and pull it out of the cam cleat.

The most serious issue that we have with this centercockpit boat is the reduced visibility due to the somewhat higher cockpit. We prefer not to roll out any headsail below the level of the top of the pulpit. Even then, you have to swat a little to see any leeward traffic.

Some people raise the cockpit height issue as promoting increased seasickness, but we don't think that that is a serious issue. The increased height does offer a significantly more secure feeling than any aft cockpit boat.

One thing to watch out for is that some center cockpit boats attempt to increase headroom while not increasing freeboard. In this case something has to give and it is the depth of the cockpit coaming.

Lastly, I suspect that all other things being equal that center cockpit boats do not sail quite as well as aft cockpit boats. However, other issues such as sail trim, type of propellor, etc. have at least as much effect.

[SkiprJohn]

hansdg53,

"I do not understand why a cc would be performing worse in light winds than a rear cockpit. Light wind performance is more than just a weight issue. I often pass many rear cockpit boats, of bigger size."

Are you racing or motor sailing?

The only thing I can point out is that the freeboard on a CC is very high and any bimini or dodger has added windage. To give headroom in the CC the boom is higher on the mast which decreases mainsail area. That's probably why they just won't go to weather like a boat of equal size with an aft cockpit in light winds.

Kind Regards,
JohnL

[Pblais]

I would agree with Jeff H on CC boats under 42 ft. The interiors gets to be a goofy setup and can lead to some other hull accommodations to make the interior work. They give up a lot some place to make the cockpit work.

With our layout we get a 76 in. x 76 in. aft quarter berth and a forward queen centerline berth. This is a boat 36 ft on deck and 42 ft LOA with a large aft cockpit.

I just wouldn't let the berth or cockpit location dictate the whole boat or you might not really like the boat when you are awake. You make a few sacrifices with all boats so I think you may find the devil is in the details and not in the cockpit location.

[Lightfin]

Thanks Paul.

It sounds like you have a lot of room.

Do you use the bow or aft cabin for sleeping?

In the aft cabin do you have much headroom, or do you bump your head sitting up, and does the inside sleeper have to climb over you to get out, etc. etc.?????

I hope to charter a center cockpit on my next trip to get some first hand experience.

The Irwin 38 cc "looks" like it might be satisfactory from the pictures, but, as many say, to make it "work" the deck and profile are and look very unconventional.