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Old 10-09-2018, 06:16   #61
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Re: 28-36 Sailboat with large cockpit,st wheel,marine head, kind of fast. Recommendat

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Originally Posted by jalmberg View Post
I wonder how many people reflexively answer this common question with their own boat? We all like to think we have chosen the best boat.

A better question might be: what kind of boat do you own, and what do you like/dislike about it?

This is the only question most of us can answer with any real knowledge.

The questioner would then get honest, useful answers about various boats, tempered with the understanding that most of us have experience with a small number of them.

A sticky thread with this info might be useful, maybe broken down by length or type, or tagged with useful keywords to make it easy to search.
I chuckled at this. About half of the recommendations here are the best boat is the one I have and, oh yeah, it's for sale. That includes some PM's on the topic.
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:15   #62
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Re: 28-36 Sailboat with large cockpit,st wheel,marine head, kind of fast. Recommendat

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Originally Posted by JoiedeVivre View Post
As a long time J105 owner I think it is exactly what you described. Fantastic cockpit, benches long enough to sleep on or have a party for 12. Optional table is nice for parties. Step transom is nice too. Cabin is serviceable for a few days. And the boat sails fabulously on all points of sail.

If draft is an issue there are shoal draft boats out there (5.5') that are usually available at a discount (because you can't race them one-design). I don't get the quality comments. No it's not built like a Hinckley but it is far better built than any Beneteau, Catalina or Hunter. People do the double-handed Trans-Pac in J105s.

Negatives? No standing headroom, but that doesn't matter when you're sleeping. Simple mechanicals, but that means far less to break. Sprit pole may leak going to weather (don't leave your bed made). Go for a Scrimp boat if you're not going to race.

Most modern J-boats fit your description to some degree, but I think the 105 comes closest. Nothing wrong with the J109 but it means paying for and hauling around a bunch of furniture and mechanical systems that it doesn't sound like you need (plus it's ugly by comparison to the 105). J100 typically has a tiller (but some have been converted). J95 is pricey, but is the shoal water option. J124 is great, but that's a different price league.

BTW many of the J105s with tillers were converted from wheels and the seller might still have the components for putting the wheel back with half an hour of work. Things I'd check on a used J105: rudder bearings (most have been upgraded by now), fuel tank (tends to rot out) and generally was it raced hard and put away wet (some of the engines have been neglected getting only brief in and out of the dock use and not enough maintenance).
Thanks I appreciate that input. There's a shoal keel one I've found for sale. There are actually some shallow areas in the otherwise deep puget sound, so it might make sense. The place I'll charter it isn't necessarily race oriented.
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Old 12-09-2018, 21:37   #63
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Re: 28-36 Sailboat with large cockpit,st wheel,marine head, kind of fast. Recommendat

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Originally Posted by sea2ocean View Post
Thanks I appreciate that input. There's a shoal keel one I've found for sale. There are actually some shallow areas in the otherwise deep puget sound, so it might make sense. The place I'll charter it isn't necessarily race oriented.
You're very welcome. Feel free to ask if you have any questions, the J105 Class Association is also a good resource for these boats: J/105 Information | J/105 Class Association
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Old 28-09-2018, 14:13   #64
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Re: 28-36 Sailboat with large cockpit,st wheel,marine head, kind of fast. Recommendat

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Originally Posted by JoiedeVivre View Post
You're very welcome. Feel free to ask if you have any questions, the J105 Class Association is also a good resource for these boats: J/105 Information | J/105 Class Association
Any idea of how much worse the shoal performs to wind? How much further away from the wind are you limited and what does it do to top speed going to wind?
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Old 28-09-2018, 16:49   #65
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Re: 28-36 Sailboat with large cockpit,st wheel,marine head, kind of fast. Recommendat

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Originally Posted by sea2ocean View Post
Any idea of how much worse the shoal performs to wind? How much further away from the wind are you limited and what does it do to top speed going to wind?
I don't have personal experience with this, but Rod Johnstone says that the PHRF rating for the shoal draft boat should be 6 seconds a mile slower on a Windward/Leeward course. In other words, since 50% of the course is to windward the shoal draft boat's windward VMG is about 12 seconds a mile slower than the deep keel boat. Not a big deal cruising. A very big deal one-design racing.

The Annapolis/Chesapeake J105 fleet was originally all shoal draft boats. That was fine until they realized they'd like to compete in out of town events and couldn't with the shoal draft. So after much analysis the fleet converted all their boats to deep draft (literally swapping keels). If you reach out to the Fleet I expect some of their members have very precise real world numbers for what you are asking.

Alternately you may be able to find polars or VPP numbers for the shoal draft boats (I am attaching these for the deep draft boats, but note that these are for one-design configuration meaning no overlapping jibs or oversized headsails, so you need an apples to apples comparison). You might get these from the internet, the Class Organization or Jboats.

Anecdotally I would say that there will be a penalty for the shoal keel, probably more in how long you need to stay cracked off coming out of a tack and what your top angle will be than in absolute speed. If draft is a non-issue (as it is where I live) I would go for the deep keel boat, but if draft is an issue then the fringe benefit of the shoal boat is that you should get it substantially cheaper than a comparable deep keel boat.
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Old 28-09-2018, 16:55   #66
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Re: 28-36 Sailboat with large cockpit,st wheel,marine head, kind of fast. Recommendat

It doesn't look like the attachments posted. i'll try again, but you can find these on line with a search.
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Old 30-09-2018, 21:41   #67
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Re: 28-36 Sailboat with large cockpit,st wheel,marine head, kind of fast. Recommendat

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J/80. Huge cockpit, fast, fun to sail. Tiller though, but you’ll learn to love it. Probably only good for day sails.

If fact, if you want a sporty boat that can also cruise there are other J-boats to look at. And the Beneteau First series as well. The 36.7 has a HUGE wheel if that puts lead in your pencil.

I would not call Pearsons “sporty” but they sail extremely well for their age.
The J80 does not have a head.
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Old 30-09-2018, 22:23   #68
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Re: 28-36 Sailboat with large cockpit,st wheel,marine head, kind of fast. Recommendat

Take a look at the Jeanneau 36i.

https://www.jeanneauamerica.com/en/b...un-odyssey-36i

Lived aboard a 36i for 2.5 years and loved it. Two nice bunks, roomy head with stall shower, great storage.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:05   #69
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Re: 28-36 Sailboat with large cockpit,st wheel,marine head, kind of fast. Recommendat

J-28
Amazingly comfortable, well built, and fast enough.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:41   #70
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Re: 28-36 Sailboat with large cockpit,st wheel,marine head, kind of fast. Recommendat

I have been looking for a 36 foot Racer/Cruiser for a while now. Something that is good around the cans and the wife will love too. TBH I am a little done with Jboats. Overpriced fast corolla is what they are called. (and yes I own one and race on 105 and 109's). The 2 boats that fit the bucket list are the Elan E4 and the POGO 36. Both have great cockpits, you can get wheels, and they are Wife friendly. Plus although not proven in LIS, they look fast. The Elan E4 PHRF is 87 up here, but I have yet to see one in a race.
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:22   #71
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Re: 28-36 Sailboat with large cockpit,st wheel,marine head, kind of fast. Recommendat

For a second hand sail boat, the Dufour 34E was built to 2011.



It's a very goot boat and a best seller.

Almost 1000 boats was built 2003 to 2011.



We are French and have just bought one Dufour 34 E (2011).

With several owners of Dufour 34, we made a facebook group. Our goal is to discuss the technical points specific to this boat. We will try to dialogue with Dufour Yachts to retrieve technical data on this boat.

If you have this boat, you can join us at https://www.facebook.com/groups/Dufour34.FanClub/
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