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Old 26-07-2015, 22:01   #91
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

You can see what you want to see, but only two of the four monohulls that beat the first cat ran their engines and had canting keels.

BTW, the GB62, which spent more on their race refit than a used sled costs, is being rolled by the entire Div 3 mono without engines class.
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Old 27-07-2015, 01:01   #92
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

Please everybody...Think a minute.....
Have you considered that racing multis may have more breakage , not because of the number of hulls they push through the water , but simply , because , having such a superior speed , they also stress any part of the boat structure to the square , especially the rigging !!
As well , any flotsam hit at 30 kts is going to cause more damage that the same hit at 15 kts !!!
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Old 27-07-2015, 10:53   #93
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

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Originally Posted by koolfrog View Post
Please everybody...Think a minute.....
Have you considered that racing multis may have more breakage , not because of the number of hulls they push through the water , but simply , because , having such a superior speed , they also stress any part of the boat structure to the square , especially the rigging !!
As well , any flotsam hit at 30 kts is going to cause more damage that the same hit at 15 kts !!!
Might be something to what you are saying but your speeds are way off the mark...the racing mono's are capable of much higher speeds....right around your 30 knot number. I think you will find that often in the real heavy going a few of the racing multihulls capsize because they are sailed right on the thin edge. We all know and accept that generally the multi hulls are faster but the mono's will heel when the rig is overloaded and reduce the rigging loads but the multihulls have to absorb the full load.
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Old 27-07-2015, 13:18   #94
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

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Might be something to what you are saying but your speeds are way off the mark...the racing mono's are capable of much higher speeds....right around your 30 knot number. I think you will find that often in the real heavy going a few of the racing multihulls capsize because they are sailed right on the thin edge. We all know and accept that generally the multi hulls are faster but the mono's will heel when the rig is overloaded and reduce the rigging loads but the multihulls have to absorb the full load.
I just used hypothetical figure in order to make a point ...
The greater the speeds , the greater the risks ! hit the car in front of you at 30 mph ,you need a new bumper , hit the same car at 100mph , you need a coffin !!!
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Old 27-07-2015, 15:05   #95
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

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Originally Posted by koolfrog View Post
Please everybody...Think a minute.....
Have you considered that racing multis may have more breakage , not because of the number of hulls they push through the water , but simply , because , having such a superior speed , they also stress any part of the boat structure to the square , especially the rigging !!
As well , any flotsam hit at 30 kts is going to cause more damage that the same hit at 15 kts !!!
I don't get your drift. On those transats with bad weather, namely the one in 2002 where multihulls had an incredibly huge breakage rate, the monohulls were faster.
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Old 29-07-2015, 00:04   #96
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
You can see what you want to see, but only two of the four monohulls that beat the first cat ran their engines and had canting keels.

BTW, the GB62, which spent more on their race refit than a used sled costs, is being rolled by the entire Div 3 mono without engines class.
What I see is that the fastest mono "ever built" did 618 miles in 24 hours, the fastest multi did 908.

The report of this "new record" does raise a question though: did Apache use their powered winches to raise their mainsail? And if so, should this record be accepted? AFAIK, powered systems aren't supposed to be used in record setting attempts.
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Old 29-07-2015, 08:59   #97
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

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What I see is that the fastest mono "ever built" did 618 miles in 24 hours, the fastest multi did 908.

...
Yes you are right, it is a big difference and as I said already that is a poor 24 hours record for that boat. The best monohull solo record on a boat almost half that size is 545nm.

They are still learning the ropes on that boat and for getting the best performance and a good 24 hour mark they have to go to the southern latitudes, the big sea desert, where all 24 hour records including the ones from the big multihulls were obtained.

A same sized top racing monohull will never go downwind in perfect conditions as fast as a top racing multihull but the difference is way too big.

I would say that with a top crew on the right place and the right conditions is possible to make with Comanche a 24 hour run between 750 and 780nm.

By the way, it is starting another attempt for a record circumnavigation and as usual the chosen boat for the attempt was a monohull (VOR 70). I mean a westbound circumnavigation against the prevailing winds. Sailing is not always a downwind ride
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Old 29-07-2015, 15:05   #98
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

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They are still learning the ropes on that boat and for getting the best performance and a good 24 hour mark they have to go to the southern latitudes, the big sea desert, where all 24 hour records including the ones from the big multihulls were obtained.

A same sized top racing monohull will never go downwind in perfect conditions as fast as a top racing multihull but the difference is way too big.

I would say that with a top crew on the right place and the right conditions is possible to make with Comanche a 24 hour run between 750 and 780nm.
So after spending all that money with all that much effort and skill and picking the right people, they are too stupid to work out where to go record hunting, is that what you are saying, it is somewhat surprising.
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Old 29-07-2015, 15:09   #99
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

So, did they even beat Wild Oats yet?
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Old 29-07-2015, 15:31   #100
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

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So after spending all that money with all that much effort and skill and picking the right people, they are too stupid to work out where to go record hunting, is that what you are saying, it is somewhat surprising.
Everybody knows, at least all professional racing sailors, where is the place to go hunting for a 24 hour record but to go there European or American boats have to sail half way around the world.

That is not practical and all those records (obtained there) by VOR, by Open 60's and by giant trimarans have been obtained during a racing circumnavigation or during an attempt to beat the record for the fastest sail circumnavigation (Maxi trimarans). All have been obtained at relatively high latitudes on the big southern Ocean.
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Old 29-07-2015, 15:37   #101
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

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So, did they even beat Wild Oats yet?
Wild Oats had not any 24 hour record. As it seems that to you only the 24 hour record counts I don't understand your enthusiasm for Wild Oats that on a downwind ride with strong winds is much slower than the Comanche as you can see on the images of the start of the last Sydney Hobart.

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Old 29-07-2015, 15:43   #102
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

How about a photo of the finish of the Sydney-Hobart? Or the Transpac?


SO now you're saying race results aren't indicative of which is the faster boat? So you'll delete all your previous posts?


BTW Wild Oats can't set any records, since they motor 100% of the time. Interestingly plenty of cat's and tri's have set records though...
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Old 29-07-2015, 16:05   #103
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
How about a photo of the finish of the Sydney-Hobart? Or the Transpac?


SO now you're saying race results aren't indicative of which is the faster boat? So you'll delete all your previous posts?


BTW Wild Oats can't set any records, since they motor 100% of the time. Interestingly plenty of cat's and tri's have set records though...
Sometimes it is very hard to discuss with you. I had showed you several transats where same sized top multihulls were slower than top monohulls. That dose not mean that multihulls are slower than monohulls.

I pointed to you that the record of a westbound circumnavigation is on the hands of a monohull and that no multihulls are interested on that record simply because on those conditions they are slower than monohulls. That does not mean that monohulls are faster than multihulls.

Race results indicate what are the fastest boat under a given set of conditions that prevailed on a given race. Fact is that nobody was expecting that Wild Oats would beat Comanche simply because the set of conditions that allowed that was a very particular one. Wild Oats won the race on a several hours patch of very light winds that are not common on the Sydney Hobart.

Even so the Sydney Hobart is one of the few big races were Wild Oats can beat Comanche and also one of the races where it can beat Orma 60 trimarans, like the Australian one (if the conditions are right). I would like very much to see them compete and I really don't understand the reasons for not allowing that.

They talk about safety and an Orma60 on bad weather is far from being very seaworthy but today safety rescues come really quick.
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Old 29-07-2015, 16:08   #104
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

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Phaedo, the GB66 which spent slightly less money than Extreme H20 tearing out the cruising amenities to go into full race mode, has finished behind a 65 ft mono, but corrected out over Extreme H20.
Phaedo is a MOD70, not a GB66 and I can guarantee you that there are no cruising amenities on those to tear out. The amenities consist of a couple of removable cloth pipe berths (carbon fiber pipes, of course), a nice carbon fiber swiveling navigation bucket seat, a small carbon fiber sink (no running water), and a carbon fiber bucket with a carbon fiber toilet seat for a head.

Nobody in their right mind would cruise a MOD70, and I don't know how even the simplest "cruising amenity" could be added to it.

Having said that, I met the crew of the MOD70 "Race for Water" that were sailing it all over the world. They weren't in their right mindsÖ.

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Old 30-07-2015, 04:57   #105
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Re: 24 hour monohull distance record broken

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Even so the Sydney Hobart is one of the few big races were Wild Oats can beat Comanche and also one of the races where it can beat Orma 60 trimarans, like the Australian one (if the conditions are right). I would like very much to see them compete and I really don't understand the reasons for not allowing that.
Could Wild Oats beat anything with it's engine off? Could it even be "sailed"?

IMO this record for Comanche shouldn't be recognised, if powered winches were used to hoist the mainsail, as I suspect they were.
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