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Old 16-04-2016, 17:47   #31
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Here is a simple explanation on what this is.

Reactive Powder Concrete

I recall a local company here trialing a new building with the steel fibres in the cement for 'road ways' which was an attempt to do away with the usual but expensive steel rio. Within a relatively short period of time the fibres became exposed and became unsightly as they began to rust and cause unsightly stains. I think they were replaced with composites for building.

In any case. Using this technology for a boat, even if it has benefits, would be expensive.
Rustic, just a note of caution, we also use Polypropylene fibres in some mixes - for anti-spalling, part of the fire rating. Completely independent of SFR.
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Old 16-04-2016, 17:51   #32
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

I wonder if using chopped glass fibers instead of steel wires might provide the same tensile strength that the steel provides but without the rust issue?
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Old 16-04-2016, 17:57   #33
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

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Really , seriously

In what material can you build a boat that does not require some real skill and expertise?

Solid fibreglass, steel, ferrocement, foam or balsa cored glass, plywood/glass, strip planked cedar/glass, resin infused glass over foam, resin infused carbon fibre over foam.... basically, you name it.

I know people who have or are building in all of these materials, many who have launched, and successfully cruised in their boats, and they're not highly skilled shipwrights or highly trained boatbuilders. Many of them carried on working at their "real" jobs while building their boat part-time as a hobby.

Building a functional, safe, comfortable cruising boat (or even a high performance race boat) isn't rocket science. Don't assume that because you may not want or be able to do something, nobody else could.
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Old 16-04-2016, 19:07   #34
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

In my book it does, too.

I think building anything well takes skill as a minimum. It may also require knowledge if building involves some amount of design. The more advanced and serious the build, the more skill and knowledge required.

Deep skill itself is knowledge too. Nadal does know how to hit the ball. Even though at the time of hitting one he only uses his skill. And believe me or not, one does not become Nadal overnight. I know you do.

People who never build things may underestimate this fact. But I think few people who are building well will underestimate it.

One can always build a less than serious boat. That's one way of building skill and gaining knowledge.

Building a proto is just that. Gaining skills and knowledge.

OP's proposal sounds 100% valid and viable unless empirically proven otherwise. He can prove it or disprove it now. Just add action. Build it.

b.
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Old 16-04-2016, 19:24   #35
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Solid fibreglass, steel, ferrocement, foam or balsa cored glass, plywood/glass, strip planked cedar/glass, resin infused glass over foam, resin infused carbon fibre over foam.... basically, you name it.

I know people who have or are building in all of these materials, many who have launched, and successfully cruised in their boats, and they're not highly skilled shipwrights or highly trained boatbuilders. Many of them carried on working at their "real" jobs while building their boat part-time as a hobby.

Building a functional, safe, comfortable cruising boat (or even a high performance race boat) isn't rocket science. Don't assume that because you may not want or be able to do something, nobody else could.
I think, I'm assuming, your down playing the SKILL of these amature builders. ANY of the examples you gave requires learning and to do any of them well requires to become skilled with it. I in no way suggested you need to be a 'highly skilled shipwright or highly trained boat builder'

Building a 'functional, safe, comfortable cruising boat ( yet alone a high performance race boat)' may not require 'rocket science', but it most certainly does require 'skill, learning, knowledge' of boats, as many failed amature's have discovered.

IF, you have yourself ever accomplished such a task, perhaps you are being way too modest
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Old 16-04-2016, 19:52   #36
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

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I wonder if using chopped glass fibers instead of steel wires might provide the same tensile strength that the steel provides but without the rust issue?
Yes - that was the whole point of my using GRC.
The thing was virtually bulletproof.
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Old 16-04-2016, 19:59   #37
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

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IF, you have yourself ever accomplished such a task, perhaps you are being way too modest
Yes, he built the awesome cat in his photos
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Old 16-04-2016, 20:58   #38
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

Interesting concept. The thing that seems impracticable to me is the phrase that much of the strength comes from the curing under compression. That would be difficult / expensive to arrange without building it in small panels and I think joints would be difficult / expensive to design without being a week point of the design.
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Old 16-04-2016, 21:46   #39
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

Somehow, casually mentioning gluing panels together leaves me thinking that this methodology has not reached the state where a sound hull could be built. I can sorta believe that very strong panels could be built, but then convincing them to stay stuck together in heavy sea conditions... well, I wouldn't care to do a passage in such a hull!

There are so many well proven hull materials that putting ones fortune and ones life at risk with a totally unproven construction seems a bad choice to me.

YMMV, of course, and I suppose that the first folks to build in GRP suffered similar comments...

Jim
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Old 16-04-2016, 23:41   #40
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I think, I'm assuming, your down playing the SKILL of these amature builders. ANY of the examples you gave requires learning and to do any of them well requires to become skilled with it. I in no way suggested you need to be a 'highly skilled shipwright or highly trained boat builder'

Building a 'functional, safe, comfortable cruising boat ( yet alone a high performance race boat)' may not require 'rocket science', but it most certainly does require 'skill, learning, knowledge' of boats, as many failed amature's have discovered.

IF, you have yourself ever accomplished such a task, perhaps you are being way too modest
Nope, I'm not being way too modest.


http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...er=3477&page=5


It's really not that hard, technically. IMO any reasonably competent person could do it. If you call a plumber to change a tap washer, then no, probably not.

The most difficult part of building your own boat is simply staying motivated, and sticking to it to the end. People don't get the reality of a multi-thousand hour commitment. But the work itself isn't particularly mentally taxing at all. Just the opposite, in fact. It's the monotony and boredom that can be the biggest problems.
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Old 17-04-2016, 02:58   #41
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Nope, I'm not being way too modest.


http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...er=3477&page=5


It's really not that hard, technically. IMO any reasonably competent person could do it. If you call a plumber to change a tap washer, then no, probably not.

The most difficult part of building your own boat is simply staying motivated, and sticking to it to the end. People don't get the reality of a multi-thousand hour commitment. But the work itself isn't particularly mentally taxing at all. Just the opposite, in fact. It's the monotony and boredom that can be the biggest problems.
I agree with 44. The greatest skills required are patience and perseverance. I spend 8 months once in a boat yard rebuilding a wharram, enjoyed it alot. The thing it taught me most is " I don't want to build a boat" im seriously not mentally designed or wired appropriately to spend countless hours fairing a hull. Some are, and they love it. Theres a reason some home built boats look homebuilt and other's don't , and its not skill.

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Old 17-04-2016, 04:55   #42
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

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I agree with 44. The greatest skills required are patience and perseverance. I spend 8 months once in a boat yard rebuilding a wharram, enjoyed it alot. The thing it taught me most is " I don't want to build a boat" im seriously not mentally designed or wired appropriately to spend countless hours fairing a hull. Some are, and they love it. Theres a reason some home built boats look homebuilt and other's don't , and its not skill.

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'Patience and perseverance' are not skills, they are attributes.

So what are the reasons some home built boats look like home built boats and others don't?

Seriously, I think your both just being argumentative
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Old 17-04-2016, 05:35   #43
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

Ok, attributes if that's better. What makes the difference is quality of finish.....patience ,perseverance and commitment have alot to do with the quality of finish. An eg. I met a guy that built a smaller cat than the one 44c owns but same designer ( sorry cant think of name) he finished the whole boat in 12 mths, it was more than just functional but I wouldn't say it presented as well as a production boat. Now, another guy I know built a Chingocan 52, the overall finish was very professional. I remember him telling me how many hours went into the fairing of just the inside to get the finish he wanted, and also how tempted he was to stop when " it was good enough" ......that's the difference I'm talking about.
See I'm an 80% guy, a get the job done sort of guy, that last 20% , the bit that really makes something shine, well lets just say my wiring is faulty in that area.....and this is why I wouldn't build my own boat, not enough patience amongst other qualities and attributes. My wharram looked great, as long as you compared it to other Wharrams!

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Old 17-04-2016, 08:05   #44
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

Setting all the technical stuff aside, as someone above said...how are you going to use the boat?

Some people...
Love to sail
Love to repair/restore
Love to build
Hate boats.

Which are you? If it's just about experimenting and figuring stuff out, then go ahead. If you want to sail, buy a good used boat. If you want to repair/ restore a bad used boat.
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Old 17-04-2016, 08:21   #45
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Re: 21th Century Ferrocement Yacht Hull Technology

Good morning,
An other thing, in Europe no company are doing insurance for FC boats. It will probably be the same in other countries...
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