Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-09-2015, 12:22   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Boat: 1989 Hunter Legend 37
Posts: 58
Question $20k boat VS $60k boat

Which is the more financially responsible option?

1. 1970's 20k 40'+ Sailboat + 20k in "upgrades"

or

2. 2000's 60k 37' Sailboat


I will not do all the work myself on the older boat, so it will not become a "project", everything will be done once by a professional (hence the "high" 40k add-on). My arguments;

- I can completely redo the interior of an older boat with that much cash, so I will have EXACTLY the layout I want (and be much nicer than a newer boat), plus I can get a larger boat for much less (because of age).

- But, a newer boat has a furling main which is a big plus for me, something I couldn't add to an older boat because of the high cost. Also, no work involved.

- I will convert either one to electric propulsion, so the engine age and condition don't matter.
__________________

__________________
"One major advantage of living aboard is she can't re arrange the furniture on a whim." -Perchance
TitoSoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2015, 13:08   #2
Registered User
 
oldragbaggers's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Wherever the boat is
Boat: Cape Dory 33
Posts: 1,019
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

These numbers (either one) do not seem realistic to me especially if you are going to hire professionals to do all your work on the older boat.
__________________

__________________
Southbound on the ICW

https://share.delorme.com/SVAnteris
oldragbaggers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2015, 13:11   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Pearson 39-2 "Sea Story"
Posts: 1,109
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

It depends on the boat. A 60K 2000's boat may not be in very good condition and as such would need plenty of maintenance projects.

As to the budget, we have spent about 15k in a year and a half, doing pretty much everything ourselves, except the exhaust manifold rebuild. Just the money you spend on epoxy is mind boggling if you have to repair anything. And properly sized wiring for the DC system? Oy Vey!! I can't imagine getting all that much for 20k from professionals. Our dock neighbor spent 2.5k having the boat painted and he taped it up and removed the tape himself and had to hound the guy to finish the job in between.
__________________
SV Sea Story adventures
Greenhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2015, 13:18   #4
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 2,593
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Your numbers are way out of whack. I've seen a 35' boat re-wired for 60k,
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2015, 13:24   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Boat: 1989 Hunter Legend 37
Posts: 58
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Wow, I suppose getting work done by "professionals" might not be such a good idea then!

I know that I can definitely find a boat for ~60k as I am literally looking at a 1998 Beneteau Moorings 382 right now for 68k.

I am incredibly handy and wouldn't mind taping and untaping a boat for paint if it means spending 2k less on boat prep. But what I can't do is any of the interior cabinetry or upholstery, for example.
__________________
"One major advantage of living aboard is she can't re arrange the furniture on a whim." -Perchance
TitoSoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2015, 13:41   #6
Registered User
 
Jman's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Northeast, USA
Boat: Luders 36
Posts: 230
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

I presume a mis-type and you meant 20k boat with 40k added to equal the same 60k.

Even so you are not going to be even close either way - to sailing away. The newer boat will be tough shape. You will definitely not be "reconfiguring" the interior of your older choice to your exact specifications, if you get professionals doing it you won't get much of anything.

$40k at $100 an hour is only 400 hours, ten weeks of time, with no materials.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Jman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2015, 13:48   #7
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,426
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenhand View Post
Our dock neighbor spent 2.5k having the boat painted and he taped it up and removed the tape himself and had to hound the guy to finish the job in between.
That is one of the hardest lessons in the boat world... these guys agree to do the work but just never bother showing up or calling to do the work. Then then the yard has the balls to charge you for the time in the slip/yard waiting for them to show up.

This is why we have given up on pros for most everything and have learned to do everything ourselves.

If you get a newer boat you end up doing the exact same work as the older boat.

My buddy bought a westsail 32 and has spent the last two years completely rebuilding it from the bottom up, starting with removing everything including the interior. He just really wanted a Westsail.

You have to really love whatever boat you buy.

I vote for the 20K boat - although 20K no matter the age says to me "Hurricane Sandy".
__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2015, 13:48   #8
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Firstly, a Big part of how much it'll cost to refurbish either boat will depend on; how much it's been used, how hard, & how much upkeep over time has been done.
Also, I STRONGLY concur with the other members who are saying that your numbers are grossly undersized. It's easy to burn up $10-$15k on a repower alone. And that's with you doing a lot of the work.

For an expert opinion, read this article by Nigel Calder. He's pretty much acknowledged as THE boat maintance & upkeep guru. A Refit Reality Check | Cruising World
You'd also benefit from going to www.Mahina.com & reading their wisdoms on boat selection & upkeep (costs).

Realistically, it's easy to spend as much or more than the purchase price of either boat, in bringing them up to spec. Not including a new interior.
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2015, 14:32   #9
Registered User
 
oldragbaggers's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Wherever the boat is
Boat: Cape Dory 33
Posts: 1,019
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

The more realistic approach, in my (very) humble view, if you have a $60K firm budget either way, is to look for an older boat that has been meticulously maintained, upgraded, and equipped to cruise already. It will take some patience and you will no doubt look at a lot of crap before you find one that lives up to the owner's description (every boat for sale is in "sail away condition" according to the advertising) but there are some great boats out there and if you take your time and learn to do a thorough survey (I am talking about an initial evaluation, you will still need to hire a competent surveyor once you are ready to make an offer) you can find a great boat that really is ready to take you somewhere for $60K.

I do know these boats exist. I have known people that have purchased them, and we have sold a couple ourselves at significant losses. Other people benefited from the fact that either our lives had to make a shift in direction or we had gotten 3-foot-itis.

We had friends who spent several years lovingly restoring and fitting out a Pacific Seacraft Mariah 31' with the intention of going cruising. They spared absolutely no expense and did everything to the highest possible standard. They went out for a short cruise (I am thinking a couple of months) and decided that it was too small for the long distance cruising they had in mind. They sold it at a great loss in order to buy a Peterson 44. Someone got one heck of a deal on a boat that was absolutely ready to go. These things happen for a host of different reasons.

I can't stress enough the need for a skilled surveyor if your plan is to shoot the whole budget on the purchase price because then you will be buggered when failures and defects start to make themselves known and you have no funds in reserve to deal with them, especially if you are not prepared to do your own work. It won't take many times of calling someone in to do something for you that you will either learn real quick to do your own repairs or decide that boats are much too expensive if you are on a limited budget.

You may be able to find a newer boat in the size range and budget you state, but the likelihood that it will be anywhere near pristine or properly fit out for cruising are pretty slim. You can find any number of older boats in the $20K price point and in the 35-40' size range but I can tell you from a great deal of experience (going through a refit of just such a boat ourselves right now) that you are not going to get anywhere at all on $40K if you plan to hire people to do everything for you. We fully expect to have at least that much in our boat with doing most everything except the engine repairs and making up the rigging ourselves.

Modify your expectations a bit though and there is no reason you can't get out there on a decent and sound boat for the budget you have stated and if you take your time and look carefully you might even have some $$$ left over.

Good luck to you.
__________________
Southbound on the ICW

https://share.delorme.com/SVAnteris
oldragbaggers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-09-2015, 21:00   #10
Registered User
 
JTHAW's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: west Fl., Tampa Bay,
Boat: '76 Heritage West Indies 36 Morgan design
Posts: 156
Images: 4
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Becky's assessment is complete reality...excellent...
__________________
had to sell my beauty, can't physically do the hard labor needed to sail and maintain,.. bad back....if you can?...Go
JTHAW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-09-2015, 05:31   #11
Registered User
 
haiqu's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere on Australia's east coast.
Boat: 'Keppelena' Hartley Queenslander 33'
Posts: 465
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoSoto View Post
- I will convert either one to electric propulsion, so the engine age and condition don't matter.
This right here tells me you're clueless and shouldn't be buying a boat until you do a lot more research. Apart from astronomical cost it just won't work unless you intend to shore charge it continuously.
__________________
http://www.cruiserswiki.org - Moderator

"The cure for anything is salt water... sweat, tears, or the sea" -- Isak Dinesen
haiqu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-09-2015, 05:42   #12
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,054
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

For whatever it's worth, I think I'm about 40K into preparing my boat for cruising, and that is almost no money in repairs as it was in excellent shape, it's in equipment, sails, rigging etc., and I have yet to touch the interior. Now all I plan on doing to interior is replacing the settee cushions as I don't think I could improve on layout and what is there is in excellent shape, but foam ages and loses it's firmness.
Point being is I think I'll end up with 50K in it after purchase price, and that was with a boat that was in excellent shape. I think I would have spent 40K if it had been off the showroom floor.
You start adding up autopilots, charging systems, radar, plotters, battery banks, generator, watermaker, refrigeration, dinghy and motor,windlass, ground tackle, davits, solar systems etc. It adds up pretty quick.

I don't mean to be disparaging, many buy a boat and a Coleman cooler and cruise quite happily, it can be done, just I'm old and the wife won't go unless I make her comfortable, or maybe she would and I just use her as an excuse?
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-09-2015, 05:52   #13
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

A 2000 boat will be due its 2nd refit......or well overdue its 1st!

Or could be a well maintained minter.....less of those around of course.

Me would go 40 on the boat and 20 on refit / upgrades / minor changes....age less important than being in good condition. Really good condition.

Obviously if you are looking to repower with electric that will change things (I make no comment on the advisability of doing so).....if you can find a very good boat except for a stuffed engine then likely to get a good deal - but often stuffed engine is part of a long history of lack of boat maintenance elsewhere (everywhere else?!).

Sent from my NEXUS 5 whilst sitting in my armchair tied to the dock.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-09-2015, 06:06   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 8,513
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Save up and spend $80k on a 2000's boat that's already in good condition. Our 1998 Hunter 450 was in great condition, and didn't require any refit when we purchased it, or when we sold it in 2011
__________________
Kenomac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-09-2015, 08:37   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: channel islands
Boat: lancer 36
Posts: 268
Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoSoto View Post
Which is the more financially responsible option?

1. 1970's 20k 40'+ Sailboat + 20k in "upgrades"

or

2. 2000's 60k 37' Sailboat


I will not do all the work myself on the older boat, so it will not become a "project", everything will be done once by a professional (hence the "high" 40k add-on). My arguments;

- I can completely redo the interior of an older boat with that much cash, so I will have EXACTLY the layout I want (and be much nicer than a newer boat), plus I can get a larger boat for much less (because of age).

- But, a newer boat has a furling main which is a big plus for me, something I couldn't add to an older boat because of the high cost. Also, no work involved.

- I will convert either one to electric propulsion, so the engine age and condition don't matter.
which option IS MORE FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE? you're kidding right? there is nothing financially irresponsible in buying the boat that you like. i would assume that you have determined the cost of upgrades on the older boat. certainly nobody here can give you that number and to proceed with the older boat would be irresponsible as finances go. so let's assume that each boat ended up costing the same 60k at the end of the day. your choice seem quite simple to me. a nice 37' boat with the interior exactly as you want without main furling or a 40' boat with main furling. i wouldn't have furling main on any boat. as i'm getting older though i am considering an electric halyard winch.
__________________

__________________
jrbogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: 56' Ketch in Virgin Gorda - Asking $60K (USD) Noname1 Classifieds Archive 12 15-02-2011 09:13
For Sale: 52' Ketch - $60K CSY Man Classifieds Archive 0 22-06-2010 04:48
Gemini 3200 / Cat Under $60k Panama Multihull Sailboats 5 26-01-2010 05:34
$20K for Boat . . . + Fridge? CaptBrosnan Liveaboard's Forum 7 05-08-2009 10:22
Looking to buy used blue water yacht, approx 40-50 foot. 50-60k approx sausage Classifieds Archive 5 17-02-2009 11:15



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.