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Old 23-09-2015, 22:04   #46
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

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Originally Posted by jreiter190 View Post
Lakota said the whole system cost 6K in a 30 footer. A Hunter 30 is the Cherubini, isn't it? A heavy little boat when equipped for Cruising. The guy claimed it drove his boat at hull speed for ten hours. If he only ran 41/2Kn., could he double that to 20 hrs? How far does a sailboat have to motor to get sea room to start sailing? Plus, the solar panels put some back, the free wheeling prop under sail puts charge back. Am I missing? No noise, no oil or fuel in the bilge,no exhaust fumes. I have space for eight six volt batteries below the water line, either side of the ballast, right in the center of the boat. Scout, sorry if you felt I was targeting you. I know you wern't pooh poohing the electric idea. Excuse me.
No worries mate. But I have to agree that your numbers are not possible. Remember that the more you run your batteries down the shorter their life span & you certainly want to make sure they are completely recharged. A free wheeling prop will not do that & I doubt it would charge them up very much at all. To achieve hull speed you'd have the throttle wide open. I'm no expert but I think that 48 volts at 8.8 kw is going to be pulling around 180 amps. Hopefully someone can check my calculation. If I'm right, with that kind of draw no battery bank will last long.
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Old 23-09-2015, 22:43   #47
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

the 60k boat is worth 60k the next day. the 20k boat with 40k in upgrades is worth 20k the next day....
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Old 23-09-2015, 23:05   #48
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

I am a sailing type of person, so I get the sail up 10-15 min out of the marina, so it is seldom I run the engine for more than one hour for each trip. I think 50 hours of engine time per year on maybe 50 trips is my norm.
With some solar panels and a reserve generator, I think I could have switched to electric. I even considered it when I needed to get a new engine, but the batteries and the electric drive system was just as expensive as a diesel engine, so I just went with a diesel for the safety. Just in case, you would need to motor for an extended period.
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Old 24-09-2015, 04:43   #49
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

It sounded too good to be true at any price.
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Old 24-09-2015, 05:29   #50
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

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I am a sailing type of person, so I get the sail up 10-15 min out of the marina, so it is seldom I run the engine for more than one hour for each trip. I think 50 hours of engine time per year on maybe 50 trips is my norm.
Assuming you return frequently to the Marina and shorepower, I'd say it sounds like you would be a perfect candidate for electric.
It's my belief that electric makes more sense for most boats than Diesel does they way the are used. Face it majority of boats rarely leave the Marina, and when they do it's for day sails, returning to the Marina that afternoon.
I would hope to see more electric soon.
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Old 24-09-2015, 06:43   #51
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

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And you believed him? Did he do the installation himself?
Just repeating what the guy said, for what it's worth.

No... the Hunter 30 is not a Cherabini. It's a fairly low-end "price boat" displacing 9700 lbs. (Sorry if I've offended any Hunter owners here.)

The installation was done by a dealer somewhere in Virginia. I was just curious and wasn't interested in pursuing it, so I didn't get any contact info from him.

Again, just repeating what the guy said.

Incidentally, the dealer/installer was on the boat also when I looked at it. Of course, he was in the marketing mode, so he didn't dispute any of the owner's claims.

I'll stick with the Yanmar 2GM20F diesel on my Shannon 28 (even though engine access is a huge pain in the ass.)
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Old 24-09-2015, 06:50   #52
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Professionals can often do a very nice job. That being said, it is the nature of the business that a job in progress is job security. The more jobs in progress at once, the more security/ success at a given time. Combine that with the unexpected snags/complications and you will soon find that the job is stalled. It's just the way it works.

It is necessary to create a good/close working relationship and maintain vigilance (daily) if you want the project done close to the plan. The bigger the job, the more likely it is to stall. Just sayin
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Old 24-09-2015, 07:27   #53
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Until you have a boat(s) in mind it's all guesses
You could find a great old boat thats been very well maintained that needs almost nothing, you will find many newer boats that have had little or no maintenance done.
All depends on the boat you are looking at and what it needs.
You could easily blow 1/4 of you 20 000$ budget on a pair of cockpit winches on a bigger boat. Anderson 52s are over 2500$ a pop each plus tax and possible shipping. Now add in a set of sails for a boat that size and your 20G is gone and you are over budget, you haven't really replaced anything!
Look at as many boats as possible, have a survey done on the possibilites, look at the list of immediate replacement stuff, get on-line and start pricing.
Every re-fit is different, just because one boat had to have something done does not mean every boat needs it, check it on your boat and evaluate for sure, automatic replacement beause somebody else did - no! Common sense required here!
Boats in salt water have some issues fresh water boats don't, and vice versa.
A lot of northern boats are out of the water half the year and covered vs a southern boat that has baked in the sun for 20 years and gets hauled out every couple years.
So many variables!
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Old 24-09-2015, 10:46   #54
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Terra Nova???? Was your dauts for me?



I am not sure it was my post that was in question, but to clarify the situation. The boat has been in the water for three seasons now after the rebuild. The US engine had to be left in Florida because of the EU regulation is very strict on this. Any boat imported after 1997 got to have a EU certified engine, and it got to comply with the polluting regulation the year it is imported, so I had to buy a new engine that was EU certified. After three seasons in the sea the tachometer read now about 150 hours, so this will be about 50 hours per year give or take. I use it every Wednesday and most weekends I am in town. I spend many weekends at the cottage up in the mountain, but when in town and the weather is good I take it out Saturday and Sunday, but the season in Norway is short. About 6 months, so 50 trips per season is my best estimate. I could take picture of the tachometer, but if you do not trust my words, that is of no value. Photoshop can make anything.
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Old 24-09-2015, 11:28   #55
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

sv--not you; my doubts regarded the hearsay on other poster's dock.
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Old 24-09-2015, 12:13   #56
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

" I use it every Wednesday and most weekends I am in town. I spend many weekends at the cottage up in the mountain, but when in town and the weather is good I take it out Saturday and Sunday"

Well, for this specific use, electric may well be viable. From Trondheim out to the end of the fjord has to be 30 or 35 sea miles, and the distance to the bottom of the fjord has to be about the same, so evening and weekend use is not likely to extend much beyond the fjord immediately adjacent to the town. Getting beyond Ørland would be a rare occurrence I think. A range of 100 nm seems to be all that is really required, but that is still six or seven hours out and six or seven hours return.

I've no idea if the winds fetching down from Iceland reach into the fjord at the town, but if they do, then the distance getting out into "sailing water" is no longer than a long spit. There may well be a situation like the one we can count on here in the Straits of Georgia that in the summer we have 10 or 15 knts of "inflow" winds going UP the fjords in the daytime and 5 to 10 knts of "outflows" going DOWN the fjords in the nighttime and early mornings. Used to be that in English Bay (essentially a saltwater lake within metropolitan Vancouver) you could set your watch by these windshifts!

Nevertheless, before committing money I would make sure that there is a slip available at the marina in Trondheim with 50Amp service :-)

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Old 24-09-2015, 13:23   #57
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Wow, you did some research. Very good. Yes, the long trip to get out the fjords to the open sea is boring, so I got a second place where I keep the boat too. In July, I keep the boat in Verrabotten at Agdenes camping. It is about 1 and a half hour to drive from Trondheim. But it is the closest you can get the open sea. It is next to Hitra, but on the mainland. On Google Earth there is a picture I have taken from the camp where we have the camper parked, with view of the small protected fjord with only 10 min sailing to the open sea.
To get more than 16 amp is rear to find in marinas in Norway.
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Old 24-09-2015, 13:45   #58
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Here is a picture from Google Earth from the place.
Hm? No picture?
Can not put in picture, but at Google Earth at:
63 34 46.88N and 9 31 07.40E you can see the picture.
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Old 24-09-2015, 13:46   #59
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

I recently did a 16' x 20' section of my main cabin top. Over lapping layers of 1/2" and 3/4" plywood plus 2.0 RSM cloth and 7 gallons of West epoxy. $1400 (and I get discounts) without labor. It took 3 days, 1 for tear out, 1 for decking and one for fiberglassing. 3 days of yard labor would be at least $1500+. Paint still to do.
That $20m will go fast.
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Old 24-09-2015, 15:05   #60
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

If I had to guess, I'd guess that anything beyond about 10 miles range would be tough with electric, you have to consider adverse winds, tides, currents.
There are times when my 7 kt cruise ends up being 3 kts SOG, gotta make 5 knots to make any headway.

Now if you could make even 50 miles electric, then I think it's viable, that is pretty much a full day motoring for most boats.


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