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Old 23-09-2015, 08:54   #16
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Guessing at numbers is pointless. If you're really serious about buying a boat get out there & start looking at boats. Don't get in a hurry & look at a lot of boats. The more you see the more you'll know what you want & what it should cost. When you find the right boat in the right condition at the right price you'll know it.
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Old 23-09-2015, 08:58   #17
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

i also question your numbers as well as the cost and value of a roller furling main. the engines are a major item so scrapping them is a plus if you can find a nice boat with engine issues. I spent time looking at electric a few years ago and concluded that any refit would be uneconomic even if you solved the recharge issue.
the idea of reworking the interior of an older boat for only 20k sounds unreal to me if done in the US.
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Old 23-09-2015, 09:13   #18
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Repowering with electric will be the way to go someday but unless you have or are adding a generator it doesn't make sense now. Marine diesels are actually amazing little things that will take you very far for very little money.

Electric Boats, Motor Yachts, Launches, Electric Powered Boats
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Old 23-09-2015, 09:15   #19
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

The only sane reason to buy a project boat, is if the buyer wants to do a project. If the buyer just wants to go sailing, he should buy a boat that a "project doer" just finished.

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Old 23-09-2015, 09:21   #20
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

I think it really depends on what you plan to do with the boat. If you plan to do a lot of sailing beyond the sight of land, you will be spending a lot of money on piece of mind (like in the article). But if you are just living aboard and going up and down the ICW, skip all that and buy a $10k boat and work on it over time.

Also, you don't have to buy all your materials through West Marine. Used boat parts are everywhere, including sails, and have lots of life left in them. And why not source materials from local suppliers and get local labor to do things the "professionals" want an arm and a leg for. As long as someone with knowledge knows the difference. A local electrician is no dummy. They are certified and wire the homes we live in, do underground work, etc. etc. Besides, you would be shocked how much work you can have done for a day of sailing and some beer. If you have the money, spend it. If not, have some fun.
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Old 23-09-2015, 09:42   #21
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldragbaggers View Post
The more realistic approach, in my (very) humble view, if you have a $60K firm budget either way, is to look for an older boat that has been meticulously maintained, upgraded, and equipped to cruise already...
Good luck to you.
I agree. Plus, I would not buy a boat planning to do major projects like a repower right off the bat. IMHO, It's much more fun to sail than work... 5 yrs ago the PO was asking $50k for my well maintained 35' sailboat. Of course the nav/electronics were outdated, but my work has been little more than regular maintenance and I'm still far south of $60k.
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Old 23-09-2015, 09:48   #22
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

"I will convert either one to electric propulsion, so the engine age and condition don't matter."

Oy!!! You'll need one helluva long extension cord. Make sure its the outdoor, waterproof type :-)

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Old 23-09-2015, 10:12   #23
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoSoto View Post
Which is the more financially responsible option?

1. 1970's 20k 40'+ Sailboat + 20k in "upgrades"

or

2. 2000's 60k 37' Sailboat


I will not do all the work myself on the older boat, so it will not become a "project", everything will be done once by a professional (hence the "high" 40k add-on). My arguments;

- I can completely redo the interior of an older boat with that much cash, so I will have EXACTLY the layout I want (and be much nicer than a newer boat), plus I can get a larger boat for much less (because of age).

- But, a newer boat has a furling main which is a big plus for me, something I couldn't add to an older boat because of the high cost. Also, no work involved.

- I will convert either one to electric propulsion, so the engine age and condition don't matter.
What you haven't said, but is indicated by your post, is that you have little experience with boats. Yet you are driven to have professionals build you a custom interior, to your design, so you can have exactly what you want. Even more dubious is your plan to convert whatever you buy into electric power! A huge project, of extreme technical risk and highly questionable logic, costing 10's of thousands of dollars. Now I must assume your boating experience to be rather closer to none at all.

So I must advise you to get some actual experience sailing and spending days and nights on boats. This should let you see the folly of the assumptions that have led you to concoct such a plan.

A 40'+, older, $20k boat will likely be in dire need of $100k++ in professional refitting--that's before installing an amateur-designed interior!

Do your own due diligence.
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Old 23-09-2015, 10:29   #24
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

You cannot "redo the interior entirely" properly for $20k if you are not doing the work yourself.
Listen to the posters on this forum, while they may seem negative at times, many of us have learned the hard way how difficult, expensive and time consuming boat works is, and how very difficult it is to find someone to do the work for you properly.
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Old 23-09-2015, 10:34   #25
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

This remind me of myself 5 years ago. I bought and old boat from 1969, Ericson 41. It got very nice lines so I gave it a bid for 10K and got it on eBay unseen. The boat was cheap, but needed new engine, instrument and a new deck plus a lot of work and new paint. I had originally planned to sail it home from Florida to Norway, but after inspecting the boat, I decided to ship it instead. That was and additional 20K, new engine 10k instrument 5k material 10k including the paint. I did all the work myself, so after two years of work I put it back in the water. Now it is sailing like a dream. But if professionals should have done it I think it would have been too expensive.
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Old 23-09-2015, 10:59   #26
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoSoto View Post
Which is the more financially responsible option?

1. 1970's 20k 40'+ Sailboat + 20k in "upgrades"

or

2. 2000's 60k 37' Sailboat


I will not do all the work myself on the older boat, so it will not become a "project", everything will be done once by a professional (hence the "high" 40k add-on). My arguments;

- I can completely redo the interior of an older boat with that much cash, so I will have EXACTLY the layout I want (and be much nicer than a newer boat), plus I can get a larger boat for much less (because of age).

- But, a newer boat has a furling main which is a big plus for me, something I couldn't add to an older boat because of the high cost. Also, no work involved.

- I will convert either one to electric propulsion, so the engine age and condition don't matter.
Howdy Titosoto!

You have already gotten a lot of good comments from members who have "been there and done that" kind of experience related to refitting an old boat.


Given your desire to use electric motors in your future boat, and your flexibility in boat design, and your interest in older boats that are lower initial cost, I have the following suggestions:

1. Go to this thread and look at post #10. It features a low cost boat that already has an electric motor installed, and it appears to be "ready to sail." It was recently available for sale (and may still be). I have no idea where you are located. And that boat is in the PNW. However, given its low asking price, you could conceivably have it trucked to your location and still be spending less than your projected "low cost" boat purchase. I have no connection to that boat, but it might give you a good start with fulfilling some of your desires.

Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

2. You have an interest in Electric Motor propulsion of a sailboat. I find the topic interesting too. It has been discussed many times here on the forum, but finding those threads can be a problem. So I used my recommended method of a "Google Custom Search" of just CF and found the following 3,000 hits using the search terms "electric motor engine." Take a look at these for detailed discussions of the cost and benefits of electric motors on sailboats (and dinghies):

electric motor engine - Google Search
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Old 23-09-2015, 11:56   #27
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

We are currently into our 15th month of restoring a boat and not sailing a whole hell of a lot. We do about 85% of the work ourselves (not our first project) and the refit is already more than the purchase price. Still have to replace all hoses and belts in the engine room and rewiring in 2 phases by a professional simply because we can't afford to do it all at once. In the beginning we were sure that throwing a little more money at the problem would solve it and we found out, to our chagrin, that it just ain't so. Now a complex formula of time divided by dollars multiplied by simplicity of solution is used in every decision. Older and wiser, we hope.

This investment does not include making the boat blue water ready. That'll be another chunk of money. We foolishly thought we would be "out there" in 6-9 months. Now we are (rationally, I hope) planning on leaving for Alaska next May.

Your refit budget sounds a lot like ours was in 2014. It's what you THINK it should cost versus what the supply houses and professionals KNOW it will cost.
Sadly, never the same thing in my experience.

Buy the boat in the best condition, plans for major redesign of interior spaces sounds very time and $$ consuming. All boats are a compromise unless you have the wherewithall to commission the boat of your dreams. Sailing's the thing, not eternally working on it. Good luck
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Old 23-09-2015, 12:10   #28
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

I think you would be surprised at what it really takes to change the interior layout of a boat. Bulkheads are often structural. I am onboard right now and I can tell you that our liner is formed for the bulkheads to be slotted in. Easy enough to take out if it isn't tabbed in, but now you are going to have to reglass the liner to get rid of the ridge. You want to move a sink? Now you need your drain thru hull moved, so the old has to be glassed in and the new cut and installed. If you change berths or settees, you will likely have to change tank locations.
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Old 23-09-2015, 12:39   #29
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoSoto View Post
Which is the more financially responsible option?

1. 1970's 20k 40'+ Sailboat + 20k in "upgrades"

or

2. 2000's 60k 37' Sailboat


I will not do all the work myself on the older boat, so it will not become a "project", everything will be done once by a professional (hence the "high" 40k add-on). My arguments;

- I can completely redo the interior of an older boat with that much cash, so I will have EXACTLY the layout I want (and be much nicer than a newer boat), plus I can get a larger boat for much less (because of age).

- But, a newer boat has a furling main which is a big plus for me, something I couldn't add to an older boat because of the high cost. Also, no work involved.

- I will convert either one to electric propulsion, so the engine age and condition don't matter.
Buy the new one! JMHO
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Old 23-09-2015, 14:35   #30
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Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat

When I had a 1934 25'7" on deck Atkin sloop, someone asked me," Jonathan, what does it cost you to run your little boat? ". "Every nickel I can get my hands on", I said. "Well, what did it cost you when you had your fifty footer ?" " Every nickel I could get my hands on", I said. Your income seems to adjust itself to the size boat you are supporting, so, my advice is, buy the boat you want, because it will take every nickel you can get your hands on. At least you'll have the boat you want.
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