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Old 23-01-2009, 06:00   #1
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2.5 ft vs A good boat

Continued from Hunter Yachts Thread:

I currently have a Mirage 275 (Robert Perry design) and I am looking at 30 footers. Is that 2.5 feet going to make the journey any more comfortable. I dont have a shower or oven and storage is limited. The Mirage also has only an outboard engine 9.9. The original OMC saildrive was taken out some years ago.

So I am in confussion, I have a great boat ready to make the Journey from Halifax to the Bahama's but there is no inboard, limited storage, no oven, and no shower.

The boats I am looking at have showers and ovens and inboards, but I don't know the history of them. Is the devil you know better then the devil you dont?

Ok I can install a shower, cockpit or cabin not a big job. How many times would we bake, do we need an oven? Inboard vs Outboard, I would say any dependable outboard is better then a non dependable inboard but it sure is nice to have a prop that stays in the water on big sea's.

The hardest part of the journey will be from Halifax to Cape Cod, and then the New Jersey coastline. From there it will be ICW until the crossing of the gulf stream to the Bahama's.

Ok fellow sailors lets hear your thoughts, good or bad its all appreciated.

Cheers

Todd
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Old 23-01-2009, 07:22   #2
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Although Robert Perry designed many/most (with C&C) of the early Mirage’s; I thought that the 275 was a Phillippe Harle design.
Since he’s a member here, Bob may offer the definitive answer.

In any case, we had a smaller Mirage 26 (a Perry design) with the Saildrive intact. She was a wonderful boat, but for long term cruising & liveaboard, we moved up to a C&C29 (28'6" LOA). After a decade aboard the C&C, I couldn’t imagine living on the even smaller 26. I do think you would appreciate the increased volume of a 30 footer, and an inboard (diesel) engine.
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Old 23-01-2009, 08:00   #3
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Thanks Gord,

I should clarify that it is a Mirage 27 not a 275 but the LOA is 27.5. Same boat as the Perry design 26 with a reverse transim.

Cheers

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Old 23-01-2009, 11:39   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waverider View Post
Continued from Hunter Yachts Thread:
How many times would we bake, do we need an oven? Inboard vs Outboard, I would say any dependable outboard is better then a non dependable inboard but it sure is nice to have a prop that stays in the water on big sea's.
Oven -- how often do you use it now? That tends to be a pretty good place to start. That also is before we even start asking about workarounds like a pressure cooker or portable oven such as this or this

Inboard/outboard -- I think the real issue has more to do with power generation than propulsion. The batteries loves them amps.
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Old 23-01-2009, 11:50   #5
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An extra 2.5 ft length will not make all that much difference. Its the extra beam that really adds to the interior volume. Of course an inboard diesel takes up space otherwise used for storage. Its really just a matter of what makes you comfortable. Every decision has its positives and negatives. For two people a beamy 30ft is a nice size. Heck I`m looking a 22-26ft range and 30ft seems like monster.
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Old 23-01-2009, 13:51   #6
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Wave, several years ago I did NY to the Keys and the Bahamas singlehanded in a 24 footer with a 9.9 outboard and a Force Ten 2 burner propane cook top. No GPS, no DVD, no LORAN. Literally had the time of my life. Lived aboard for a year and a half. I know the magazines are pushin' 50 footers now, but its all crap. I have a 42 footer now, because we wanted room for company, an oven, real refrigeration and lounging space...NONE OF WHICH IS A NECESSITY. Just be careful not to take an unseaworthy boat out to sea. I knew my boat well, beefed up her systems, and took the easy way whenever possible. Hope this helps, Chris
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Old 23-01-2009, 15:02   #7
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Originally Posted by waverider View Post
Is that 2.5 feet going to make the journey any more comfortable.
Yes Todd!!!
Our first family boat was a 26 footer, then a 30 footer and the extra space was imense! Then we moved up to a 31 footer. That was huge!

So if 1 foot can be a difference you will find a well designed extra 2.5 feet quite a lot.

As you mentioned inboard deisel, shower, better fuel and water tankage, far better galley (chics dig an oven!), better everything.


However...............................

Halifax Nova Scottia... hmmmm.......... I was sailing out of Sydney Nova Scottia and noticed there wern't too many sailing boats there...... So would prices be higher?

Could it be better to sell a smaller boat there and buy a bigger one in the Caribbean, Florida, Bahamas etc? Or do the trade there?

Just a thought
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Old 23-01-2009, 23:20   #8
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I would side with Chris and add a little more emphasis. Seaworthiness is most important. I would sail a properly maintained Contessa 26 anywhere. I can't say that about a bigger Catalina 27 that I once owned. And what is the biggest factor that makes a boat seaworthy? Go look in the mirror. (because its YOU!)
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Old 24-01-2009, 00:09   #9
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And just to add more cooks to the soup...

I find that displacement is a far better measure of 'size' than length. And that money over-rides comfort most of the time (when it really should be safety that over-rides comfort.)

If you don't use your oven ashore, you're not likely to be inconvenienced without it afloat. Sail the boat you have. Try to spend a weekend, a week, afloat with all the crew you plan on heading elsewhere with and never going ashore. Is that okay? Now try a shakedown cruise with an overnight passage. Still okay? Start working down the coast...

If you get to the Bahamas without going stir crazy/killing the crew/selling it to a random stranger on the dock in exchange for bus fare home, then it's probably big enough. At least you'll have enough experience to know you need more. Take small steps as a way to test things.
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Old 24-01-2009, 01:23   #10
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I would go in the Mirage. You say its ready, you know how the boat handles.
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Take small steps as a way to test things.
This is realy good advice from Amgine.

As far as an oven..... come on man get yourself a BBQ grill. Put the money and energy into more important things like buying better quality beer .

Paul
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Old 24-01-2009, 06:53   #11
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LMAO, thanks eveyone for the comments and feedback. I have sailed the coast of southren Nova Scotia with the Mirage, done over night legs and stayed on board for over a week at a time. The beam of the 27 is 9.3 and most of the 30's I have looked at only have an extra couple of inches, not enough to make a big difference in living space.

Yes in Nova Scotia boats hold there value very well, I could sell mine here and buy 30 to 34 footer for the same price, even with the low dollar right now. If I shop in the US for my next boat.

Other then a crossing from Clarks Harbour NS to Marblehead or possibly Portland, we will only be sailing for 8 hours a day ( New Jersey being maybe longer). On good days we may sail for 12 or 14 hours.

I have no worries about my vessel now, all new standing and running rig. Chainplates are good and strong. I guess its really the outboard that bothers me, it does charge the batteries and I have solar aray as well. If I was going alone this wouldn't be a discussion but because I have someone else to think about (1st mate), I can't help but think bigger.

Well time is clicking away, leave date is Aug 15, 2010. I have an itinerary in my mind but I dont care if we stick to it as there is no rush to force bad judgement. I just want to get away for the season, if that means we make it to the Virgins great if that means we are stuck visiting friends in Key West thats fine too.

Cheers,

Todd
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Old 24-01-2009, 07:06   #12
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Why go ICW? What is wrong with sailing the coast?
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Old 24-01-2009, 07:46   #13
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I dont mind sailing the coast at all, but I would think that the ICW would be a better way to meet other sailors and people that we can develop friendships with that will last for years.

Believe me we will be making the trip on a budget and the fewer times we have to take a mooring or dock the better. We are going to keep our schedual open to possiblities and adventure. We leave Aug 15th and we want to be back for June 15th so where ever we end up in between is sure to be fun, exciting, and full of memories for a lifetime.
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Old 24-01-2009, 08:33   #14
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Wave, you're right...if ya got the time, the ICW can be alot of fun. Stop in NYC and allot several weeks for the Chesapeake too. From Cape May NJ, travel up the Delaware and thru the C&D canal into the 'peake. Then back down and out. If you are worried about power generation, convert all you can to LED technology, and limit power usage as much as possible. Maximize icebox insulation and use reflectix if possible. Since you will be burning gas, you can get a small generator cheap that will do AC and DC for charging while sipping gas. This is to augment your solar (best) and OB gen. Carry several impellers and housings, sparkers, filters, maybe a coil and a full gasket kit for the OB. Oh, and BTW, NJ is easy...no worries, you're gonna have a blast!
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Old 24-01-2009, 08:58   #15
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Thanks for the support CVH, love your quote too....Jaws, great movie and Quint ruled.
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