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Old 23-05-2016, 23:31   #31
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

I've done a bit of sailing in outboard powered sailboats in the 24' to 30' range including a 24’ T-Bird, a Columbia 26, a Ranger 26, and a Cape Dory 30.

Here are some considerations for installing an outboard on the Ranger 29:

It is a long ways from the water to the top of the transom on an R-29
A standard “long” sailboat leg on an outboard is 25” long
The top of the prop needs to be 6” below the surface to account for pitching

You will have to mount the motor quite low on the R-29 transom
The R-29 transom slopes away from the cockpit
It will be difficult to reach the motor for starting

I am not sure how you will be able to control the engine speed with the motor mounted so low on the transom. The Cape Dory and Columbia had a remote throttle control.

Outboards built for use on a displacement boat have lower unit gearing to slow the prop speed and are not so easy to find in a good used state.

A standard recommendation is 4 HP per Ton of displacement.

We used the Columbia 26 (5200 pounds 19’ LWL 8’ Beam) with a 7.5 HP Chrysler Sailor 250 (low speed/high torque prop) all over Puget Sound and the San Juan Islands. It was great in calm water but seriously lacking in power in the typical 1 to 2 knot tidal current that occurs twice a day in any narrow passage. And, it was pretty useless trying to motor into 20-knots and a 3’ chop.

The 10,000 pound Cape Dory had a newer 10HP Honda mounted in a well and seemed to have sufficient power for almost all our needs. It was a remote start engine.

An outboard mounted in a well is far easier to manage than one mounted on the stern as is necessary on your Ranger 29.
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Old 23-05-2016, 23:37   #32
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Re: 1974 Ranger 28' 7" - Questions for the experienced.

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Originally Posted by AcousticBruce View Post
20k.. really? I can see maybe 3k to 5k to get this thing sailing at the most. I do not care about cosmetic stuff right now. But then again, owning a boat is new territory for me. So you could be right.

edit: Also, I am skilled in mechanical, electrical (even electronics), and have wood finishing skills. So I will not be paying people to work on most things on the boat. I also have a lot of time and I enjoy the long work effort. So, I am hoping you are wrong. Even UNCIVILIZED mentioned 10k. Honestly, if I put 10k in this in 6 months, that would not bother me too much. But this is only if it is structurally sound and leaks are not a issue.
When I said $10K+ I was being polite, in trying to warn you off. The other, bigger estimate, is closer to the truth. Especially when you have to replace the main bulkhead due to rot, as well as grinding out & fixing areas of delaminated & or fractured glass.

Let alone, resealing the entire toerail, all of the way around the boat. Which, if it's bolted together, like on a 33', you're looking at several galvanically siezed in place, bolts per foot.
Then scraping, & or grinding out the old sealing compound. Adding in some new, & bolting things back together.

Either that, or structurally fiberglassing the hull & deck together, inside & out. Which takes ages, & is miserable work.


Look at it this way. On a car of that vintage, which had been sitting exposed to the elements for many, many years, what wouldn't you expect to have to replace?

Besides, with a bit of looking, you can find a R-33 in Good shape, for $10K, with Lots of gear, & a diesel.
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Old 24-05-2016, 07:54   #33
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

I had a r26, and my brother had an r29. Good basic boats and they do sail well, despite what some folks have said on this post. Think they have no experience with rangers. Rangers and Cals were the club boats back in the 70s. Not perhaps the most comfy boats since they are quick on their feet, but solid in layup and easy to repair. Most had vinyl liners that can be easily ripped out and replaced. Personally, i would just paint vinyl paint over the interior glass.

If it has the old engine in it, leave it. The weight went into calculating C.E. The mast step is a plywood bridge that can be cut out and replaced with solid hardwood. Cut out the top without breaking so you can glue it back over the wood bridge.
The keel is bolted on through a flange on the keel. Bolts go through the hull to the interior. Nuts need to be sprayed with wd-40 for several weeks to loosen them up. Its Cast iron but really does not need much maintenance. I epoxyed mine to avoid the rust spots(for the benefit of the fish below). The keel bolts probably need to be replaced. Both boats' bolts were far gone when we took them out. BTW you do not want to drop the keel, just whack the bolts out of the flange one at a time. Just puddy covering them from the outside.
New Bolts should be regular steel, monel, or bronze so they do not react with the cast iron flange( protect the flange, not the bolts).
Otherwise not much else to worry about. The hull deck joint probably leaks but not worth doing much about. Its a solid glass hull. The rangers are designed with some weather helm since the rudder is far aft. Which brings up the desirability of having the rudder examined to make sure the stainless tube is not cracked. Tube goes down with lateral flanges. The outside fiberglass is actually two parts glued together. Often the rudders will get out of true vertical from bent shaft.
Otherwise, good first boat. BTW, anchoring from the stern will prevent the boat from wandering all over the place. The Rangers tend to wander when anchored at the bow.
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Old 24-05-2016, 07:59   #34
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Re: 1974 Ranger 28' 7" - Questions for the experienced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
When I said $10K+ I was being polite, in trying to warn you off. The other, bigger estimate, is closer to the truth. Especially when you have to replace the main bulkhead due to rot, as well as grinding out & fixing areas of delaminated & or fractured glass.

Let alone, resealing the entire toerail, all of the way around the boat. Which, if it's bolted together, like on a 33', you're looking at several galvanically siezed in place, bolts per foot.
Then scraping, & or grinding out the old sealing compound. Adding in some new, & bolting things back together.

Either that, or structurally fiberglassing the hull & deck together, inside & out. Which takes ages, & is miserable work.


Look at it this way. On a car of that vintage, which had been sitting exposed to the elements for many, many years, what wouldn't you expect to have to replace?

Besides, with a bit of looking, you can find a R-33 in Good shape, for $10K, with Lots of gear, & a diesel.
A lot of these posts are BS. You do not need to do much on the boat to sail it for several years. Just keel, rudder, and mast step: all of which you can do yourself. The hull deck joint is a S shape overlap, glued and bolted. Leave it alone. If you follow a lot of the advice on this post, you will be wasting money. You will not be able to sell it for what you put into it.
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Old 24-05-2016, 08:49   #35
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

My take, go for it as you want the experience of the rebuild. Get a proper outboard mount (having it professionally installed is a good idea) and look for a 10 hp electric start Honda. Yes a bit more money but very reliable - since you are getting the boat for free and money was not the object, spending some on safety insurance would be a good idea - having a reliable engine available on any boat for newbies is essential. Going without an engine is okay for an old salt but dangerous for all if you are just beginning. Once you have a motor, have at it and keep asking for help, do a lot of research and know your own wants, needs, and limitations. I will tell you I personally spent three years rebuilding a 36' Piver Tri from the keel up thinking as you do it was less expensive and the experience would do me well. The experience I got was the wife and kids hated it and, after 3 years, I joined them. By the time I got it back in the water and ready to go, we wanted nothing more to do with it (another aside, I invested double what I had paid for it and more than what I could have purchased one in the water and ready to go at the time). If you personally don't mind the hard work and like "doing it yourself" it will be a lifetime memory worth the time invested. Just be prepared!
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Old 24-05-2016, 09:03   #36
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

Going without an engine is actually the best experience for a newbie; you get to learn how to sail in all sorts of situations. For racing we had to have an outboard on the r26, so got an old one that did not work. Not really an issue to learn to sail into and out of a slip, to drift towards one's intended direction and so forth. Better to learn how to do without an engine in the beginning rather than later.
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Old 24-05-2016, 09:09   #37
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
No not a Ranger 29. That's the Mull/Ranger 28 it appears. Well respected boat. Get a solid bracket and be careful to mount it so the motor goes into the water as far as is reasonable. You should be able to get a 6-10 HP outboard for 600+. Get an adjustable bracket.
I stand corrected, it is a 29, I had my window configurations mixed up. Great sailing boat.
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Old 24-05-2016, 09:23   #38
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

The Ranger 30 was designed by Raymond Hunt
RANGER 30 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
The entire Ranger lineup was, as far as I know, designed by Gary Mull. His boats all sailed well, so no motor is really necessary. The 28 is an IOR half tonner and has all the eccentricities of the type. The 29, an earlier design, I believe, is completely different.

There is no reason you can't rebuild a glass boat. My advice would be to forget the "systems" and aim for a strong well-found boat with excellent sails, ground tackle, and galley.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Paul
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Old 24-05-2016, 09:33   #39
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

The free boat is good unless you have serious (expensive to fix) structural issues like extensive rot in the deck core, separation at deck/hull joint, bad keel bolts, etc. Invest in a survey to avoid a nasty surprise later. Outboard power can work for this size boat and new or used motors are very affordable. Just think about control issues- shifting and or throttle and the need to reach them while steering the boat.
Your comment about needing transom work is scary. If weakness at the hull joint I would stay away. If it's just needing an outboard bracket, that's no big deal.
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Old 24-05-2016, 09:57   #40
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
I had a r26, and my brother had an r29. Good basic boats and they do sail well, despite what some folks have said on this post. Think they have no experience with rangers. Rangers and Cals were the club boats back in the 70s. Not perhaps the most comfy boats since they are quick on their feet, but solid in layup and easy to repair. Most had vinyl liners that can be easily ripped out and replaced. Personally, i would just paint vinyl paint over the interior glass.

If it has the old engine in it, leave it. The weight went into calculating C.E. The mast step is a plywood bridge that can be cut out and replaced with solid hardwood. Cut out the top without breaking so you can glue it back over the wood bridge.
The keel is bolted on through a flange on the keel. Bolts go through the hull to the interior. Nuts need to be sprayed with wd-40 for several weeks to loosen them up. Its Cast iron but really does not need much maintenance. I epoxyed mine to avoid the rust spots(for the benefit of the fish below). The keel bolts probably need to be replaced. Both boats' bolts were far gone when we took them out. BTW you do not want to drop the keel, just whack the bolts out of the flange one at a time. Just puddy covering them from the outside.
New Bolts should be regular steel, monel, or bronze so they do not react with the cast iron flange( protect the flange, not the bolts).
Otherwise not much else to worry about. The hull deck joint probably leaks but not worth doing much about. Its a solid glass hull. The rangers are designed with some weather helm since the rudder is far aft. Which brings up the desirability of having the rudder examined to make sure the stainless tube is not cracked. Tube goes down with lateral flanges. The outside fiberglass is actually two parts glued together. Often the rudders will get out of true vertical from bent shaft.
Otherwise, good first boat. BTW, anchoring from the stern will prevent the boat from wandering all over the place. The Rangers tend to wander when anchored at the bow.
So I could not recall if the R29 had the cast iron keel like the 26, but according to sailboatdata the 29 has a lead keel and I gather it is encapsulated too, is that not right?
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Old 24-05-2016, 11:36   #41
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

Check the area around the chain plates for water intrusion. If the deck is soft you are looking at a lot of tedious work.
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Old 24-05-2016, 11:43   #42
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

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Check the area around the chain plates for water intrusion. If the deck is soft you are looking at a lot of tedious work.
Just replace the chainplates. One of my back stay plates broke and there was no sign of fatigue or stress. Cheap enough.
Probably can ignore any soft decking. The top and bottom glass is sufficiently durable to hold the boat together.

Someone mentioned getting a pro to install an outboard bracket. Ignore that advice. The transom has thick marine ply sandwiched. You might have foot square stainless backing plates made for both sides. Just make sure to use lots of sealant in the drilled holes. Its an easy job to do.

Your window frames probably have the original cruddy aluminum frames. Should be able to get new frames made at a fabrication shop or just fill in the pitted spots with marinetex and paint with aluminum colored paint.
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Old 24-05-2016, 11:46   #43
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

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So I could not recall if the R29 had the cast iron keel like the 26, but according to sailboatdata the 29 has a lead keel and I gather it is encapsulated too, is that not right?
Not in my brother's. Cast, external. But then again Jensen marine would make custom jobs, and also had a liberal substitution policy as material prices fluctuate. The boats were designed for the yacht club racing circuit and were not designed to last a long lifetime like Wetsnails.
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Old 24-05-2016, 12:59   #44
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

The boat in question is a Ranger, probably built in Costa Mesa, and it was one of four relatively similar boats: the Ranger 23, 26, 29, and 33. As I recall, the Ranger 29 displaced 6,500# with about a 3,000# keel, and drew about 4'9". It has a really nice hull design, typical of Mull designs that weren't distorted by the IOR rule.

I know it would be relatively easy and cheap to have an outboard, but it's also ugly, generally requires remote controls, and isn't what I would want longterm. So, presuming the boat came with an A4, I would have a long term goal of finding one and re-installing it. It depends on how much was removed with the engine. Controls? Gas tank? Muffler? It could be too much of a job, but the A4 is a sweet, smooth engine that would push the R29 at hull speed for about 3/4 gallon per hour. (I would be tempted to over-prop the boat since the R29 is at the small end of the A4 spectrum.

If not, then I would go totally minimum with my pusher engine and treat it as a way to power at 4-5 knots in calm conditions. 6HP would be fine, 4HP would probably be nearly as fast.

Shop for second hand sails. The mast has steps; that's kind of odd. Shop for second hand blocks at marine flea markets.

Have fun; it's a great boat.

Chuck
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Old 24-05-2016, 13:28   #45
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

I have completed a couple of boats, similar condition, I am confident in all trades, but
wasting a couple of years and many thousand, does not add up.
Just a remark, small outboard motor would push the boat nicely, but on short swell
/when the wind pick up and you really need drop sails and start the engine/
is useless because of cavitation.
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