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Old 23-05-2016, 18:13   #16
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re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

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Originally Posted by AcousticBruce View Post
So you are saying, look for one in better condition?
No, not at all. What I am saying is don't concentrate on the electronics, plumbing, hot and cold running water and so much other frivolous stuff that has crept aboard sailboats in the past half century. Concentrate on the keel-hull junction, the chainplates and their attachments to bulkheads and other strong points, the spars, standing rigging, the complete steering system from the distal end of the hiking stick to the bottom of the rudder...and other things that are important to strength and seamanship.

You don't "need" a motor of any type. Find a used lifeboat oar for $10 and put your money toward a good, used self-steering gear, something you will need. Also, a good stove. Search on YouTube for "Atom Stove." For rebuilding boats see Atom Sailing and Tim Lackey's websites.

Keep us posted.

Paul
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Old 23-05-2016, 18:16   #17
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re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

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If it was really built in 74 then I think it is a R29. In video sure likes a 29.
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Here is from a survey in 2002.
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Old 23-05-2016, 18:17   #18
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re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

I might be tempted to part with my atom stove. I haven't installed it yet.
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Old 23-05-2016, 18:19   #19
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re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

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Originally Posted by AcousticBruce View Post
Attachment 124789

Here is from a survey in 2002.
Ranger 29, if the survey is right.
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Old 23-05-2016, 18:20   #20
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re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

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Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
No, not at all. What I am saying is don't concentrate on the electronics, plumbing, hot and cold running water and so much other frivolous stuff that has crept aboard sailboats in the past half century. Concentrate on the keel-hull junction, the chainplates and their attachments to bulkheads and other strong points, the spars, standing rigging, the complete steering system from the distal end of the hiking stick to the bottom of the rudder...and other things that are important to strength and seamanship.

You don't "need" a motor of any type. Find a used lifeboat oar for $10 and put your money toward a good, used self-steering gear, something you will need. Also, a good stove. Search on YouTube for "Atom Stove." For rebuilding boats see Atom Sailing and Tim Lackey's websites.

Keep us posted.

Paul

I appreciate what you are saying and this resonates with my intentions. I would like to learn more about these key areas.

Great websites... checking them out now.
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Old 23-05-2016, 18:24   #21
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re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

The survey says it is a Ranger 29 which is a different boat and does have a more balanced helm. As for other boats, the Cal and Catalina series from the 1970s both offer solid reliable boats with lots of interior space. The Columbia series had more than all of them. The Columbia 30 is enormous down below.
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Old 23-05-2016, 18:32   #22
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re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

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The survey says it is a Ranger 29 which is a different boat and does have a more balanced helm. As for other boats, the Cal and Catalina series from the 1970s both offer solid reliable boats with lots of interior space. The Columbia series had more than all of them. The Columbia 30 is enormous down below.

SO this one?
RANGER 29 (MULL) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


Appearently, the Ranger 29 is MUCH better as far as keel goes. It is actually a molded on design, so no keep bolts. If this is true, this makes me feel much better.
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Old 23-05-2016, 18:34   #23
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re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

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The survey says it is a Ranger 29 which is a different boat and does have a more balanced helm. As for other boats, the Cal and Catalina series from the 1970s both offer solid reliable boats with lots of interior space. The Columbia series had more than all of them. The Columbia 30 is enormous down below.
Apparently, the Ranger 29 has an encapsulated keel (so no keel bolts). It is also more center focussed. I hope this is correct.

I will definitely check those series of boats, the Columbia and the Cal and Catalina series from the 1970s.
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Old 23-05-2016, 18:40   #24
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re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

Take a look at the Cal 29 and Catalina 27.
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Old 23-05-2016, 19:01   #25
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re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

Ranger's are great boats. A 33' was my first. But with this one, you'll spend a month just taking her apart/ripping out rotted wood & gear, as she's been neglected for so long.
Followed by half a year plus, & $10k+ getting her back into decent condition. Not including an engine.

Whereas if you tell us where you are/are shopping, & your budget. It won't be hard to find something about the same size, in good condition, with an engine, that's fitted out for coastal cruising, in the $3-$5K range. Such boats come up all of the time, on Craig's List for instance.

One which I commonly see, for example, is a Cal 29. Which were built, & mostly designed by the same company, in the same place. And I see them in that asking price range. Which means that they can be had for a lot less.
Fully fitted out for coastal cruising, with an inboard engine (often a diesel). As in they'll need a little TLC, plus some groceries, & off you go. And there are some eval's of them on the site, if you do a search.

I've cruised on them with 2 other Big guys, for a month, without any problems. And they're also featured in the Dashew's Cruising Encyclopedia, Vol II.

And to further help you to find a good boat, seek out a local mentor. Whether you start crewing on a racing boat, or some other venue, where you meet knowledgeable local sailors. Odds are they'll be happy to look through ads with you, & then go & help you inspect promising candidates.

Plus, do some reading on Surveying, as well as Repairing boats. Nigel Calder is a good author to start with. Plus there's lots of great information at www.BethandEvans.com & www.SetSail.com Where, at the latter, you can download (free) Steve & Linda Dashew's books (about 3k pages chock full of knowledge) on boats.

Also, most sailing magazines tend to have a lot of free information online. Such as Cruising World, which has a section on "Classic Plastics", aka boats built in the '70's & '80's, that are great boats to sail & own.
Plus, there are plenty of online sailing magazines (free) & resources as well. Like www.sailboatdata.com which has the specifications, plus a bit of history on most of the available boats out there.

Good Luck!
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Old 23-05-2016, 21:11   #26
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Re: 1974 Ranger 28' 7" - Questions for the experienced.

I raced a Ranger 29 for several years in 1972 and 1973 - we were very serious about the racing and received some Ranger factory support. It was a rock solid boat and we worked it very hard in every major race between Tacoma, Washington, Victoria BC, and Vancouver BC including Swiftsure (way offshore in the way North Pacific) and Straits of Georgia.

I would trust a Ranger 29 almost anywhere. Ranger overbuilt them and was not trying to deliver a light race boat.

It was an honest boat with not too many bad traits.

Close friends raced a Ranger 26, R-28, R-33, and finally a Ranger 37. We all competed in most of the major Pacific NW races. The 26, 28 and 33 were in the same solid class as the R-29. The 37 was an IOR "TON" boat and was a more dedicated race boat. But, the owners cruised all over with it. Just the two adults and two young girls. They loved it for cruising.

Ranger build great, solid, easy to sail boats until the IOR frenzy which led to the R-32. The Ranger 29 was nothing like the later Ranger 32.

We upgraded to a Ranger 32 in 1974 with a LOT of factory support. I lived on the boat for a year while in graduate school.

That was a fast and very unruly IOR boat with all the negative characteristics of a an IOR rule beater. We were hull #10. Our mast came down in the first offshore race we entered, but it lasted longer than hull number 1 thru 9. Those IOR boats really hurt the Ranger reputation. We beat the crap out of hull number 10 and it was fast but needed a firm hand at the helm and a very skilled crew when running hard downwind with a big chute up. I was the helmsman in big seas in many an IOR "death roll" and have seen the boom end and spinnaker clew in the water on many occasions. The late '70s IOR boats are not comfortable cruisers!

The 200 pictures of Storm Dragon are SCARY - that boat is an absolute mess and will cost you a fortune to repair. If you want the boat - make the current owner PAY YOU at least $20,000 to take it 'cause that is what it will cost to repair all the damage and deterioration I see.

A close friend purchased a Hallberg Rassey 32 of the same vintage from an estate for 1/4 of the typical price. It had not been opened for 5-years. My friend spent more than the list price of an HR32 in good condition on repairs. The boat never did work properly and his wife, after 3 years, finally refused to go onboard again.

He sold the boat and recovered about half of what he spent. A year later the person he sold the boat to sued him for a big number because the rudder post in the boat failed, the rudder fell off, and the boat came close to sinking.

As others have said - a free boat is often very expensive.

You can find a lot of Ranger 29s for a reasonable price. A Ranger 33 is the same designer, the same era, and a proven long distance cruiser.
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Old 23-05-2016, 21:28   #27
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Re: 1974 Ranger 28' 7" - Questions for the experienced.

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....
The 200 pictures of Storm Dragon are SCARY - that boat is an absolute mess and will cost you a fortune to repair. If you want the boat - make the current owner PAY YOU at least $20,000 to take it 'cause that is what it will cost to repair all the damage and deterioration I see.
...
20k.. really? I can see maybe 3k to 5k to get this thing sailing at the most. I do not care about cosmetic stuff right now. But then again, owning a boat is new territory for me. So you could be right.

edit: Also, I am skilled in mechanical, electrical (even electronics), and have wood finishing skills. So I will not be paying people to work on most things on the boat. I also have a lot of time and I enjoy the long work effort. So, I am hoping you are wrong. Even UNCIVILIZED mentioned 10k. Honestly, if I put 10k in this in 6 months, that would not bother me too much. But this is only if it is structurally sound and leaks are not a issue.
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Old 23-05-2016, 21:52   #28
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

I've been maintaining and updating sailboats since 1971. I've worked on hundreds of boats from 16' sailing dinghies to 65' motor sailors. We purchased our current boat new in Feb. 1995. I have installed, repaired, and updated every single piece of gear on it during the last 21-years.

Doing your own work will cut the cost in half. But, I cannot over emphasize how long it takes to repair and update boat stuff. Any project will take you at least twice as long to complete as you expect.

Every project you start will reveal at least two other problems that will demand repair.

You can do it and might even enjoy doing the work. You can probably end up with a useable boat and you will certainly know a great deal about the boat and it's gear.

BUT - a free boat is usually NOT an economic decision. I am pretty sure you will end up spending way more money than if you had purchased a functioning R-29 or R-33 and then upgraded it as needed.

There is nothing wrong with your plan and it might result in a good boat. But, in my last 20-years of cruising I've met dozens of sailors with your plan and I can't remember any that were happy with the results.

Good luck and if you get the boat - I'm sure you will soon be a skilled boat mechanic and maintainer.
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Old 23-05-2016, 22:00   #29
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

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I've been maintaining and updating sailboats since 1971. I've worked on hundreds of boats from 16' sailing dinghies to 65' motor sailors. We purchased our current boat new in Feb. 1995. I have installed, repaired, and updated every single piece of gear on it during the last 21-years.

Doing your own work will cut the cost in half. But, I cannot over emphasize how long it takes to repair and update boat stuff. Any project will take you at least twice as long to complete as you expect.

Every project you start will reveal at least two other problems that will demand repair.

You can do it and might even enjoy doing the work. You can probably end up with a useable boat and you will certainly know a great deal about the boat and it's gear.

BUT - a free boat is usually NOT an economic decision. I am pretty sure you will end up spending way more money that if you had purchased a functioning R-29 or R-33 and then upgraded it as needed.

There is nothing wrong with you plan and it might result in a good boat. But, in my last 20-years of cruising I've met dozens of sailors with your plan and I can't remember any that were happy with the results.

Good luck and if you get the boat - I'm sure you will soon be a skilled boat mechanic and maintainer.

I believe you, I am just shocked at the cost of things. Wouldn't it make sense to just pay a few hundred dollars for a simple survey even for a free boat?

The good news is I am not totally an owner yet. I am waiting for the title and I have to sign that. So really I still have time to make a real decision. I really like the look of this boat. Perhaps it is the way lines of the boat curve up the bow and the blue hull. It is just nice. Do any boats come to mind that have that may be comparable in the design shape like this?
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Old 23-05-2016, 22:17   #30
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Re: 1974 Ranger 29 - Questions for the experienced.

$10K ??

Replace the genoa rolller furler with hank on sails
$500 new forestay and hardware
$500 used genoa
$500 used mainsail
$1,000 standing rigging
$500 new running rigging
$250 2 used genoa winches

$750 used outboard
$125 used outboard mount

$250 new battery charger
$250 new batteries

$1000 used self steering system (mandatory if you are going to singlehand)

$500 rewire boat (Ancor 14-gauge tinned wire is $0.30 per FOOT in 100-foot spool - consider how many feet of new wire you will need cheap circuit breakers are $20 apiece)
$500 used stove
$500 new thruhulls
$125 fresh water pump

After spending the $7,375 shown above you will have no instruments, no lighting, battery charging provided only by 15-amp outboard alternator, old blocks, decrepit gooseneck, a very dodgy boom, old anchor rodes, suspect life lines, and a 45-year old mast that looks pretty well used.

And, I've not included the cost of epoxy, resin, fiberglass mat, sandpaper, steel wool, paint and varnish to repair all the damage I see in the photos. It would be very easy to spend another $500 on materials.

I assume you will do every bit of work yourself. If you do need a professional boat guy then you'll pay at least $60/hour or $90/hour here in SoCal.

The water damage around the chainplates I see on deck and in the cabin is of great concern. IF the deck or hull structure around the chainplates is water damaged or rotten then there may be no possible repair. At a minimum new chainplates will cost $1,000.

You do not mention the state of the bottom. It looks like you need a whole new one and that will cost you at least $750 if you do all the work yourself. Bottom paint is currently starting at $180/gallon. But, if you are in an area like SoCal the only legally applicable paint starts at $250/gallon.

I imagine I seem to you to be a an old curmudgeon who just wants to deny your dream. But, I have worked on at least a dozen projects similar to the one you are considering. As long as you understand the magnitude, financial and labor, you might enjoy the boat.
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