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Old 21-09-2015, 20:07   #1
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1970s Tartan

I am looking at buying an early 1970s Tartan 34 center board (S&S design) that is in need of completing a started restoration. The gentleman selling the vessel is older and cannot complete his quest on this boat and is looking to sell.

He has completed the hull work (repaired any/all blisters, hull painted and bottom job), most of the interior woodwork was refinished as was painting of some of the interior pieces.

The rigging is all there though it would need to be inspected before we put it all to use. Six different sails accompany the boat though the lines would almost all need to be replaced.

The interior is in need of a good cleaning and a new floor put in but otherwise she seems solid for a 40+ year old boat.

Big issue on this particular boat is that she has no engine. It originally came with an Atomic 4 but I think I'd rather go diesel.

Here is the ad...

We are not afraid of the work she'll need and aren't overly concerned about having a boat worth $X when we're done, we just want a capable sailing vessel we can take down to the Keys and the VIs.

Thoughts?
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Old 21-09-2015, 20:21   #2
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Re: 1970s Tartan

From what I've read, they're capable sailboats, and some have gone off to far away places..
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Old 21-09-2015, 20:26   #3
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Re: 1970s Tartan

T-34c is a great boat. There is a very active and competent tartan group over on yahoo. I believe at least one of the members has re-powered a 34.

Hope it works out
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Old 21-09-2015, 20:54   #4
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Re: 1970s Tartan

Howdy Mr Mac.

What follows is written in a friendly tone of voice, with the intent to help with a different POV. My questions are simply to clarify the matter of discussion.

I sincerely hope you find this post helpful. I assure you it is written in a friendly tone of voice and with the sole intent to help you (and others) safely reach their goals as sailors.

First, I am not a Tarten owner, and I have NO bad or good feelings about them. I am neutral on the brand and model. So you may take my comments with a splash of saltwater.

I looked at the ad carefully.

What I saw was:

1. Asking price is now $6,000 on a project boat
2. Boat has NO engine.
3. The boat has a recent paint job on topsides and bottom.
4. Interior surfaces have been either painted (white) or varnished.

That is about it.
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Unknowns?

1. Condition of sails (the seller usually says "good" but that may still mean they need repair or work). Sails could cost you a few thousand if you need to replace them with new. Given the age of the boat, I would not consider "multiple bags of sails" to be worth anything (no value) unless they are newer sails, and that does not appear to be the case, or unless you have inspected them yourself.

2. Mast, Standing Rigging? Condition? You could wind up spending hundreds or more to have new fittings, mast stepped, new wiring, new lights, etc.
3. Stanchions and lifelines condition? This could be time consuming and possibly reveal more labor to rebed them etc.
4. Deck condition?
5. It appears you will need new running rigging. Hundreds of dollars at least.
6. No mention of any electronics. ?? Hundreds to thousands of dollars.
7. No mention of any winches. No mention of any windlass. No mention of any anchors or chain or any ground tackle. No mention of any other gear at all. This could cost you thousands.
8. No cushions in the salon or Vberth. That could cost you hundreds or thousands to have custom cushions made and covered.
9. No mention of any working boat systems at all.
10. No mention of any bilge pumps.
11. No mention of fuel tanks. This could be hundreds of dollars.
12. No mention of any heads or plumbing. This could be hundreds.
13. No mention of any batteries. This could be a thousand.
14. No mention of wiring or electrical panel work. This could be time consuming, costly, problematic.
15. It needs a new floor? Time + Money
16. Transmission and cutlass bearing needed.
17. Rudder and steering system condition?
18. Throughhulls condition?
19. Safety gear? It could cost you at least a hundred or more dollars.
20. Radio?
21. No mention of a propane stove system or refrigeration system?

So, given all that….I would PASS on this boat.

Why?

Because the unknown costs will quickly run the cost of the boat up substantially.

There are other boats on the market that are capable of doing what you want to do (Keys) and possibly further (VI). They are either well equipped or have much gear needed for cruising and most will have working engines already installed, working boat systems already installed, cushions and all the other things I listed above.

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I recommend you subscribe to the following thread, and take a look at the kinds of boats that are featured. I add new boats as I find them, around the country.

Boats Less than $30K
Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds
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Whenever I see a post asking about a boat or "help me find a boat that…" or "I am looking at this boat" the first question that enters my mind is:

"What is the limit of asking price you have?"

With an adequate budget (i.e. funds to meet an advertised "asking price range") one can find a solution.

My simple suggestion: Name the budget available for the purchase of the boat. Even better post the maximum asking price or advertised price you would seriously consider spending.

For example, there is a nice looking Morgan (in the thread I linked above) that is not expensive and looks very nice (and with recent nice paint job too). There is another boat I know of too (but it may be out of your unknown budget).
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Old 21-09-2015, 21:04   #5
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Re: 1970s Tartan

I realize my earlier posting above may seem discouraging. I simply wrote it because I think there are other boats out on the market that are closer to "sail away" condition and for not much more money, considering all the unknowns of the Tarten.

At the same Craig's list, there is this listing for a boat that is "ready to sail."

It is similar in age and size.

It has a working engine, cushions, Bimini (very handy for where you want to sail), canvas (to cover the sails), a roller furling headsail, refrigerator, marine head, etc.

From the listing:
"1977 Islander Sailboat, atomic 4 gas motor, runs great, sleeps 6, has new fridge, propane stove and microwave, pressure water, lots of new stuff, Had bottom, and prop cleaned 9-17-2015, ready to sail."

32ft Islander Sailboat

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Here is another boat that looks like it has potential. It is not perfect, but offers a lot more than the Tarten that is missing so much.

http://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/5201710251.html

From the listing: "I will discount the price every ten days until it sells.. As of 8 September the Price has now been reduced to: $9,000.00"
____________

Here is one for $10,000 and it looks nice inside for the age 1980 Hunter Cherubini 36.
http://gulfport.craigslist.org/boa/5221497669.html
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Old 21-09-2015, 21:31   #6
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Re: 1970s Tartan

There are too many unknowns. I think that SteadyHand raises many good questions. He is correct in that you could end up putting in tens of thousands to get her shipshape, so maybe the boat is a good deal--but not at $6k. Why not make an offer of $1000 and go for it? The hull looks great--and so does the interior, except for the sole but that is relatively easy. However, by the time you put in an engine, electronics and she probably needs to have all standing and running rigging replaced....well, you get the point. You might be able to pick up a vessel that's pretty much ready to go for the same price you're going to put in to get this one to that condition. Make a list, add it all up and then you can decide. At that point maybe 6k is not a good deal....and what about the sails? Who cares if there are six sails if they are all 40 years old? It is a classic proven design--well built and highly regarded...but you could easily have to put in tens of thousands....
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Old 21-09-2015, 23:22   #7
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1970s Tartan

From the listing:

"1977 Islander Sailboat, atomic 4 gas motor, runs great, sleeps 6, has new fridge, propane stove and microwave, pressure water, lots of new stuff, Had bottom, and prop cleaned 9-17-2015, ready to sail."



32ft Islander Sailboat


There are a great many boats that sound good, but they all must be looked at. This particular suggestion is is bizarre. It does not say much more than the ad that the OP posted. It has pictures of upholstery that only a blind person could appreciate.

It has new fridge (no make or model which has been stuffed into the stove comportment, is it even 12 Volt?).

It has a new propane stove that is a camp stove, likely purchased at wal-mart, with a twist on propane canister. The canister should not even be allowed below deck, let alone that I am sure it has stamps all over it to never use it indoors. It looks like it has been "mounted" on a towel.

It has a gas engine - does anyone want one at any price?

Wow - they cleaned the bottom... So that should not need doing again for at least another month.

It leaves out most of same questions posed by the Steady Hand at more than twice the price.





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Old 21-09-2015, 23:51   #8
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Re: 1970s Tartan

In my opinion that is an excellent choice. Tartans were made well, good reputation, and the Sparkman and Stephens design is very well respected. Long keel, molded in, skeg-hung rudder are all good for cruising. With its shallow draft I would think it is a great choice for the Caribbean. I confess have not owned one or sailed one but I have admired them from afar. I hear they sail very well. (My boat is also an S&S of similar vintage.) The lack of an Atomic 4 is not necessarily a deal breaker, here is a link for Betas that will fit in the Atomic's spot. Is it really $6000? It looks beautiful. I wouldn't let that one get away if you don't mind putting in cushions and the engine! Yes there is other stuff to fill in the gaps, but it is a very good boat to start from IMO.

http://www.betamarinenw.com/Applicat...tomicfour.html
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Old 22-09-2015, 06:51   #9
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Re: 1970s Tartan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Howdy Mr Mac.

What follows is written in a friendly tone of voice, with the intent to help with a different POV. My questions are simply to clarify the matter of discussion.

I sincerely hope you find this post helpful. I assure you it is written in a friendly tone of voice and with the sole intent to help you (and others) safely reach their goals as sailors.
Are you trying to say something here, Steady?

We did tour the boat yesterday and my wife and I have both sat and discussed the very topics you have raised. While I won't go back over the list, we too agree that there are more unknowns than known issues with the boat and are going to pass.

As for the Islander, that is also on our list to view and, as you pointed out, would cost us far less and get us sailing immediately versus...?
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Old 22-09-2015, 10:46   #10
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Re: 1970s Tartan

The Tartan 34c was at the top of my list when I was looking to buy. Boats in decent shape with diesel seemed to be selling between $20-$25,000 dollars. Estimate what your fix up costs are going to be and use those selling prices to see if you are getting into a hole in the water. Figure $10,000 for a new diesel, $2,000 for Jib furling, and cushions, dodger and other canvas could run you up $5,000. Should be able to replace the rigging yourself with Norsman/StaLoks for $1,500. So you are getting up there in needed gear but it will all be new and probably good for a decade or more.

Looks like a nice boat escept they put a stupid wheel and self tending jib on it. Maybe you could some of the expenses by selling off the PO's dumb additions.
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Old 22-09-2015, 16:40   #11
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Re: 1970s Tartan

I don't want to get into a pissing match, but... The Tartan 34 is aong the top designs. When I was boat shopping I limited myself to top tier manufacturers who were still in business. With the noted exception of Pearsons.

By doing so did I miss some bargains? Probably.

Beyond that I will leave it to you to do your own research. The boat you select must be a design that makes you happy and her looks should make your heart skip like the first time you saw your wife...
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Old 22-09-2015, 20:38   #12
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Re: 1970s Tartan

This is a fine boat for someone that has $20,000 in reserve for a refit and a year of empty long weekends. The boat appears to be worth the asking price despite having no engine. There was a lot of labor and expense involved to paint the hull with awlgrip and refinish the interior. Installing the engine will add greatly to the stated cost of $8400 for a diesel, at least there is lots of room to work due to the design.

However, there is no room for any other major deficiencies such as a deck core problem.

For the OP, I think the biggest issue would have been the dark blue hull... beautiful but blazing hot in the Keys. More appropriate for a snowbird cruiser that summers in New England.
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Old 22-09-2015, 21:24   #13
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Re: 1970s Tartan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snore View Post
I don't want to get into a pissing match, but... The Tartan 34 is aong the top designs. When I was boat shopping I limited myself to top tier manufacturers who were still in business. With the noted exception of Pearsons.

By doing so did I miss some bargains? Probably.

Beyond that I will leave it to you to do your own research. The boat you select must be a design that makes you happy and her looks should make your heart skip like the first time you saw your wife...
I have to agree. Wholeheartedly. I passed over lots of "bargains." The boat I got was the one I wanted, the one was looking for. To me the price was good so I did not even try to haggle. The boat has needed work, but they all do. I think it is fine to pass on this boat if it doesn't appeal to you and the work/$ seem daunting, but I wouldn't blame anyone who fell in love with that boat and spent the time and money to finish her; I'd say they made the wise "investment."
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Old 23-09-2015, 04:36   #14
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Re: 1970s Tartan

I bought a 1969 tartan 34 in need of restoration for $4k a couple of years ago. They are fantastic boats and we have had 2 great seasons with her and expect many more. so far we have hundreds of hours of work into it, and I estimate 7k in materials. There is still a pretty long list but we are chipping away. Will we ever get the money out? Probably not, but that is not what it is about. I do enjoy working on boats, and bringing back a classic gives me joy, so why not?
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Old 23-09-2015, 05:37   #15
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Re: 1970s Tartan

You could probably get that boat for $2,000-$4,000.

If you have worries sometimes you can get a surveyor to give you a structural survey only for a couple hundred dollars. (depending on where you are)

There's a Tartan 34C at our dock that just pulled in a month ago. It has a newish engine. It's pretty beatup but I just like the way it looks. Bridge deck, smallish cabin hatch, nice size cockpit, etc.......

Don't underestimate these old Tartans.

The Tartan 34 is on the Mahina Offshore Sailing list also as are all Bristol Sailboats.

I paid $2,000 for my Bristol and have done no structural work on it so far, but have sailed it for 4 years now. I have about $7,000 in it which includes solar panels, inverters, new main, new outboard, outboard bracket, two bottom jobs, (bottom and topside paint), several boat lift charges.
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