1967 Bristol 39' as a first boat.

[Celestialsailor]

Unfortunately, there are many boats for sale like this. Although people are handy, there is no reason to buy a white elephant like this one. I wonder where they will all end up in years to come?

[Miu Miu]

@ Mike...thanks, we are going to keep looking for sure! How do you handle pre purchase inspections? Do you end up paying for all of them or on contengcy of purchase? We put almost $1k into hauling, inspection and pressure washing and I'd hate to do that on 10 more boats before we buy. I'm finding tat most selers say they can't afford to pay for the survey, even if we reimburse post sale.
There is so much to learn here

[MarkSF]

I would never go to the expense of surveying unless I had seen the boat first. You can tell an awful lot by looking at a boat for 10 mins, then doing a more detailing inspection yourself. Then you would make an offer if you like what you see, THEN get a survey. The survey is always paid for by the buyer as otherwise there is a massive conflict of interest.

The goal of the survey is to confirm (or not) whether your impression from your inspection is correct.

Let's face it, what percentage of 1969 boats are in great condition? 10%? Then what percentage of those boats are described as in great condition in the ad? Most of them?

Therefore you need to screen them or spend an awful lot on surveys.

[roverhi]

Too bad you weren't there to go over the boat with the surveyor. He would have pointed out the discrepancies and you'd have learned a lot. The best surveyor is a buyer with some knowledge of what they are seeing. Anything that you have questions about can be pointed out to the surveyor and he will decide if they are enough of a problem to go in his report and discuss it with you. After a few surveys, you'll have the basic knowledge to decide whether it's worthwhile to go ahead with a survey after your inspection.

I've bought one boat sight unseen. It was cheap enough that a survey would have been a stupid expense. Had a friend look it over and he gave me the lowdown on the general condition which seemed worth the risk. Other than that, have always inspected a boat myself before a survey. Making blind offers and paying for a survey are adds up real quick as you've found out. Must admit I'm not a first time boat buyer, though.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Miu Miu

@ Mike...thanks, we are going to keep looking for sure! How do you handle pre purchase inspections? Do you end up paying for all of them or on contengcy of purchase? We put almost $1k into hauling, inspection and pressure washing and I'd hate to do that on 10 more boats before we buy. I'm finding tat most selers say they can't afford to pay for the survey, even if we reimburse post sale.
There is so much to learn here

Hi Miu Miu, I always inspected prospective boats myself first before going through a formal survey. I inspected them where they were, so never hauled (or launched), therefore no costs. This allowed me to rule out most of the boats myself. The only costs (which were not insignificant) were my travel/accommodation, etc.

I would never make a bid or pay for a survey without first having inspected the boat myself.

There is a ton to learn with this boat life. I've been at if for 10 years and will never reach the level of many here on CF, but that's part of the fun (and frustration) of it all. The nice thing is it's not hard to become fairly competent at inspecting boats. There are some good books, and lots of Internet resources.

I agree with others that say time spent staring over the shoulder of a competent surveyor is time well spent.

[MarkSF]

A good book is "inspecting the ageing sailboat" which is mostly incorporated into the "complete sailboat maintenance manual". I'd suggest buying the latter, it's great to have around.

[speedoo]

Originally Posted by Miu Miu

@ Mike...thanks, we are going to keep looking for sure! How do you handle pre purchase inspections? Do you end up paying for all of them or on contengcy of purchase? We put almost $1k into hauling, inspection and pressure washing and I'd hate to do that on 10 more boats before we buy. I'm finding tat most selers say they can't afford to pay for the survey, even if we reimburse post sale.
There is so much to learn here

This is the boat right... Ebay lasting # 120925650263.

From the pics, the boat looks ok to me but of course the problems you cited would not show up in pics like that.

At 15k it's not really a great bargain even if in good shape, and with the issues found, you have to walk away IMO.

As far as what to do in the future, a couple of suggestions for future potential purchases.

1. Use Don Casey's book "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" to do your own mini survey before making an offer and engaging a surveyor for a full survey.. Not sure how to do this if you are too far away, maybe pay a surveyor to look the boat over for an hour or two to determine whether a full survey makes sense.

2. Always be present when your surveyor is doing a survey for you.. You probably would not have had the Bristol hauled out and had to pay for a full survey if some of the problems were apparent after the initial part of the survey.

[Bob on OTTER]

Sorry Miu Miu. I know you were excited. As has been said, there are some bright spots to this though...keep looking, you will find the right boat at the right price...don't get discouraged.

[bobconnie]

We have given up on even looking at e-bay or Craigs list boats! to many of this type of boats are boats most boat brokers would never list cus there to bad ! if you open the hatch ya know if there Mold !! LOL at least this big ole nose Knows !!no way I would pay for a servey on any boat I have not looked at and been aboard! but then Im been buying boats for 50 yrs or so, and do a pretty good check out myself ! but with these types of adds ya must keep in mind that they are not listed with a pro, there just might be a problem !! less then 1% of the e-bay, craigs list boats we looked at were even safe to motor let alone sail !! So we are back to our broker who is pre checking boats for us to view. Just my 2 cents

[barnakiel]

@ miu miu

Here some designs/makes with full keels, probably not on the earlier list as they are EU boats:

Amel
Endurance
HR
Rival
Rustler
Tradewind
Oyster

They all make 35+ models, has been on the market for ages (good supply of s/h boats), offer high quality boats (blue water capable), etc..

Happy hunting!

b.

[roverhi]

I wouldn't restrict myself to full keel only. There are a number of boats designed for cruising with separate rudders that are available relatively cheaply. I'd want a keel long enough that the boat will sit on it to take the ground and a skeg to support the rudder top and bottom. Boats such as the Pearson 365 are commodious and available at very good prices for the cruisability of the design. The Morgan 38 should have better performance but isn't as roomy.

Fin keel boats have a big advantage in turning ability. Makes them a hell of lot less of a challenge getting in and out of slips. I'm not a fin keel addict, own a full keel boat, but for single handing maneuverability is an issue.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

@ miu miu

Here some designs/makes with full keels, probably not on the earlier list as they are EU boats:

Amel
Endurance
HR
Rival
Rustler
Tradewind
Oyster

They all make 35+ models, has been on the market for ages (good supply of s/h boats), offer high quality boats (blue water capable), etc..

Happy hunting!

b.

G'Day Barny,

I'm not familiar with all of those marques, but Amel, HR, Rival and Rustler all produce primarily fin keel boats, not full keel models. They are indeed good choices, but not due to full keel design.

Cheers,

Jim

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'Day Barny,

I'm not familiar with all of those marques, but Amel, HR, Rival and Rustler all produce primarily fin keel boats, not full keel models. They are indeed good choices, but not due to full keel design.

Cheers,

Jim

Yes.

The list does contain a mix of boats that are either long keel (+keel hung rudder) and some sturdy & proven keel/skeg rudder designs. I explained the reasoning in a cross-post on the other thread by miou miou.

There at lest two boats from HR (Rasmus) and Rustler (36) that are classic long keel designs that may be of interest to miou miou. I also believe things like HR352 may nearly fall into their range of interest.

Amel and Rival included due to availability of their older boats that offer built quality / sailability probably acceptable in offshore adventures. I think Amels have much merit if the crew is to be 5! Maybe not exactly what the OP asked for, but having a look at what happened to the long keel a day after won't hurt! ;-)

Cheers,
b.

[Celestialsailor]

I have a HR 35 Rasmus. Full Keel/cut away forefoot. The HR 352 was a long fin with skeg hung rudder.

[souljour2000]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

We have given up on even looking at e-bay or Craigs list boats! to many of this type of boats are boats most boat brokers would never list cus there to bad ! if you open the hatch ya know if there Mold !! LOL at least this big ole nose Knows !!no way I would pay for a servey on any boat I have not looked at and been aboard! but then Im been buying boats for 50 yrs or so, and do a pretty good check out myself ! but with these types of adds ya must keep in mind that they are not listed with a pro, there just might be a problem !! less then 1% of the e-bay, craigs list boats we looked at were even safe to motor let alone sail !! So we are back to our broker who is pre checking boats for us to view. Just my 2 cents

Miu Miu...I wouldn't ever NOT look at craigslist....It's really the town marketplace of the world...folks need to realize that..or let me keep getting great deals...I have simply gotten and seen WAY too many great deals on boats and boating equipment there...now Ebay is a different beast altogether...good luck...you'll find her...Capt. Morgan