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Old 05-10-2008, 03:00   #196
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Originally Posted by GMac View Post
DC and the supposed mighty US sailing establishment knew full well how good NZ monos are, so had to sneakily turn up to a knife fight with a M1A1 battle tank to avoid an outright and highly embarrassing arse kicking

Start playing fair and lose the training hull and what happened.... Opps, bye bye Am Cup.
Hang on, if mono's are better/cheaper/sexier/faster, etc, etc, etc, how is turning up to race against a 90 foot mono with a 60 foot cat an advantage?

It's true though, it did turn out to be an outright and highly embarrassing arse kicking.
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Old 05-10-2008, 05:05   #197
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185..... Owning a Mono means never having to say:

“Sure, come on aboard….we have lots of room!”

(when you don’t want to…..)
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Old 05-10-2008, 05:34   #198
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So by a somewhat stretched and very dodgy extension to that preamble, can we take from that example that mono sailors are fair and play by the rules where multi sailors ........
Laugh - I havent laughed this much in years -

were you actually following the AC at the time of Mr Fay and Black Magic? The only reason that Conner turned up with a cat was that Michael Fay snuck out the monster black magic, rather than a traditional 12 metre rule boat. Whilst it doesnt necessarily make subsequent actions correct, the Kiwis started cheating first.
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Old 05-10-2008, 10:34   #199
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playing fair....... America's Cup.
.........fair and play by the rules
To use these phrases in the same breath is the best comedy yet!

I would have rather seen D.C. lose in a matched monohull than win in a cat. That is when I quit following the A.C.

I can see the connection between military vessels and monohulls:
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Old 05-10-2008, 12:47   #200
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To use these phrases in the same breath is the best comedy yet!

I would have rather seen D.C. lose in a matched monohull than win in a cat. That is when I quit following the A.C.
Completely agree, the AC is a joke. DC knew exactly what boat NZ would use but must have decided they just couldn't compete one on one. But at least he was nowhere at bad as the Swiss/Italian dude, he's a shocker.

And no body cheated, both boats used were within the rules, I think enough judges decided that Just one team exhibited a far higher level of sportsmanship and one team is still embarrassed they didn't.
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Old 05-10-2008, 14:34   #201
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Are you guys still embarrassed by how much of a thrashing the fastest mono in the world, purpose built at huge expense, recieved at the hands of an "off the shelf" open 60 cat?

Anyway, I'm still wondering, given all the superiority monohulls seem to have, why using a much smaller, cheaper cat is deemed to have been gaining an unfair advantage?
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Old 05-10-2008, 17:09   #202
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DC knew exactly what boat NZ would use but must have decided they just couldn't compete one on one.
There was a lot of speculation that the real reason was that DC needed 2 additional years to fully exploit the money grabbing process for the "Shelter Island Mafia". He HAD to dispose of Fay while working out how he and his buddies would get richer. Follow the money.
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Old 06-10-2008, 00:26   #203
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Off the shelf Cat Come on 44C, that's about as accurate as me saying I'll be your next President. And KZ1 certianly wasn't and has never been the fastest mono on Auckland harbour so I'd suspect it probably wasn't elsewhere.

The fastest boat on Auckland Harbour for most (could be all) of the last 20 years is a mono or more accurately a couple of monos, not the same one has won each time. We have the yearly race open to anything sail powered, fastest around the track wins. Tornado's come close as do a couple of the bigger racing Cats. Even had Volvo 60's and one of those absolute spectacular big French Tris have a go but without the joy of smelling the smoke.

This year a new pure-breed racing Cat is being picked to take the honours but that's happened before and proved wrong. I hope not, I'm sailing on it and want the goodies at the end. Free booze served by the DB girls with the clothes applied by spraygun, how good does it get

The worst thing about the Mono-Multi AC race was the way it changed the whole AC from real blokes willing to sail in weather to the bunch of softies that start falling to bits in 20kts. Now that loony Swiss team have gone stupid I'd suggest the real AC has gone for good and all we have left is just another match race, all beit in bloody expensive daysailors.

I hope like hell that multi challenge goes ahead, that will look so cool I'll need a cold shower. And the crash n' splashes will be out of this world. Having wiped out many a time on smaller cats I'd think one of those 90fters could just about send a crew member into low earth orbit

Just thought of another.

186 - As hard as you try you'll never get a mono to crash in the spectacular manner a Multi can, sometimes even without trying
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:35   #204
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Off the shelf Cat Come on 44C, that's about as accurate as me saying I'll be your next President. And KZ1 certianly wasn't and has never been the fastest mono on Auckland harbour so I'd suspect it probably wasn't elsewhere.
I guess Bruce Farr was either lying or an idiot when he said this then:

"The development program has resulted in better boat speed. But even though it's the fastest monohull keelboat in the world, the chances of New Zealand beating the cat are close to zero."

from here: 32nd America's Cup Official Website - 1988 - KZ 1
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:42   #205
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When was that statement made?? It probably was waay back then. Not now. Technology has come along way since then. Oh yeah...
187: Mono's get faster and faster as technology evolves.
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:13   #206
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When was that statement made?? It probably was waay back then. Not now. Technology has come along way since then. Oh yeah...
187: Mono's get faster and faster as technology evolves.
Got a long way to go yet

Quote:
PRB

Vincent Riou holds the around the world record on a monohull yacht. The yacht PRB (the same Open 60 that held the previous record, and the same boat now sailed by Sam Davies as ROXY) went round the world in just 87 days 10 hours and 47 minutes. Watch for Vincent and the others to be battling for this record in the upcoming Vendee Globe around the world race.
Compared to


Quote:



20 January 2008
Joyon has smashed the round the world record by 14 days!

An amazing feat. The IDEC trimaran crossed the finishing line off Brest on Sunday 20th January 2008 at 00h39'58. At the age of 51, Francis Joyon is once again the fastest solo yachtsman around the world having completed the voyage in 57 days, 13 hours, 34 minutes and 6 seconds. He has shattered the previous record, held since 2005 by the British yachtswoman, Ellen MacArthur by 14 days, 44 minutes and 27 seconds.
Got a bit of catching up to do there

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Old 06-10-2008, 03:27   #207
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Got a long way to go yet



Compared to




Got a bit of catching up to do there

Dave

Mmmmmmm, The tri is a little longer than the mono.
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:31   #208
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Which version of history is this?

Factor, you may find that the "black magic" boats were a completely different challenge.

44c, Off the shelf cat? which bit ? The multi element solid wing sail?
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:53   #209
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Mmmmmmm, The tri is a little longer than the mono.
Ok, size for size then 24 hour distance records


WSSRC - 24 Hour Distance Records


Quote:
Up to 60 foot.
1994 "Primagaz" 60ft Tri, Laurent Bourgnon, FRA, 540nm. 22.5kts
2006 "Mediatis-Region Aquitane" 60ft Cat, Yves Parlier FRA and 5 crew 597.81nm. 24.91 kts
2006 "Brossard" 60 ft Tri, Yvan Bourgnon SUI, 610.45 nm. 25.76 kts
2007 "Banque Populaire" 60ft Tri, Pascal Bidegorry, FRA, 667nm, 27.8kts
Singlehanded.
1994 "Primagaz" 60ft Tri, Laurent Bourgnon, FRA, 540nm. 22.5kts
2005 "Idec" 90ft Tri, Francis Joyon, FRA, 542.7nm. 22.6kts
2006 "Mediatis-Region Aquitane" 60ft Cat, Yves Parlier FRA, 586.00 nm 24.41 kts
2006 "Brossard" 60ft Tri, Yvan Bourgnon SUI, 610.45 nm. 25.76 kts
2007 "Idec" 98ft Tri, Francis Joyon, FRA, 613.5nm 25.56kts
2007 "Sodebo" 105 ft Tri, Thomas Coville FRA,619.3 nm, 25,8 kts
Singlehanded, up to 60 foot.
1994 "Primagaz" 60ft Tri, Laurent Bourgnon, FRA, 540nm. 22.5kts
2006 "Mediatis-Region Aquitane" 60ft Cat, Yves Parlier FRA, 586.00 nm 24.41 kts
2006 "Brossard" 60 ft Tri, Yvan Bourgnon SUI, 610.45 nm. 25.76 kts
Monohull.
1994 "Intrum Justitia" 64ft, Lawrie Smith, GBR, 428nm. 17.83kts
1997 "Toshiba" 64ft, Dennis Connor, USA, 434.4nm, 18.1kts
1997 "Silk Cut" 64ft, Lawrie Smith, GBR, 449.1nm. 18.71kts
2002 "Illbruck" 64ft, John Kostecki, USA, 484nm. 20.16kts
2003 "MariCha IV" 140ft, Robert Miller, GBR, 525.7nm, 21.9kts
2005 "Movistar" 70ft, Bouwe Becking, NED, 530.19nm, 22.09kts
2005 "ABN AMRO ONE" 70ft, Mike Sanderson, NZL 546.14nm, 22.75kts
2006 "ABN AMRO TWO" 70ft, Sebastien Josse, FRA, 562.96 nm, 23.45kts
Monohull, singlehanded
2000 "Union Bancaire Privee" 60ft, Dominique Wavre, FRA, 430.7nm. 17.94kts
2003 "AT Racing" 60ft, Alex Thompson, GBR, 468.72nm. 19.53kts
Monohull, up to 60 foot.
2000 "Union Bancaire Privee" 60ft, Dominique Wavre, FRA, 430.7nm. 17.94kts
2001 "Armor Lux" 60ft, Bernard Stamm, SUI, 467.7nm, 19.48kts
2003 "AT Racing" 60ft, Alex Thompson, GBR, 468.72nm. 19.53kts
2007 "Hugo Boss" 60ft Alex Thompson/Andrew Cape, GBR, 501.3nm, 20.9kts
Close some of them (sort of) but no cigar

Dave
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:01   #210
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Mmmmmmm, The tri is a little longer than the mono.
I didn't realise there was a rule on boat length,

maybe they chose a 60 foot mono cause they thought it was the fastest mono around that could be single handed? maybe they chose it cause it was the most cost effective option (i.e they already owned it) - whatever - they sailed what they chose and were 30 days slower.
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