Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-05-2015, 09:20   #16
Mike
 
msrcal36's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond YC, SF Bay
Boat: 1974 Cal Cruising 35
Posts: 101
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Return the boat get your money back. This will plague whoever owns this boat for years. Why always worry about something you work so hard to achieve?
__________________

__________________
msrcal36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 09:23   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 26
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Hey Dude,
Why go through any more pain? Here is the name of a great Maritime attorney on Shelter Island that has experience with this type of case. Philip Weiss, Attorney at Law, Phone number is 1-619-225-8884. He just concluded a similar case for me and I know he can solve your issue.
But don't fret, your issue is more cosmetic than structural but is still a bear to fix and may not be resolvable by the Manufacturer. Be prepared to be in it for the long haul and get in touch with this guy and continue to use the boat till your satisified. I am sure the manufacturer does not want to go to court, and in te end you will prevai.
Good luck in your trek.
Donald
__________________

__________________
captaindanger70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 09:26   #18
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,576
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdrop View Post
We have just taken delivery of a 50 foot cruising yacht. She is brand new. Only motor sailed for 10 hours total since handover in very light winds and sea conditions. During the journey we experienced severe vibration and noise. Headed for nearest safe port where we are forced to stay.

Upon investigation we initially found cracks around the anti slip near the traveller. Next day we found another 28 cracks . We went out on a sea trial two days ago only to come back to port to find even more. This vessel now has over 30 separate fractures on her coach roof. These are on both sides.

Frankly I want to hand the boat back. I have been told not to sail her in strong winds by a surveyor. - so what's the point if she is not fit for purpose? The suggested repair process is is to cut off the foredeck and replace the anti slip. Sounds a massive job. Why should you have to tolerate this on a two day old boat?

Where do you stand legally? Manufacturer wants this to be a warranty issue.
To be blunt here, at what point in the shopping process for a half-million dollar boat did you not hear talk about "most modern production boats are meant to be tied to a dock with the A/C on...they aren't actually meant to sail?"

With only a few exceptions, I haven't considered a production cruiser examined even in a cursory sense at dock or boat shows "fit for purpose" for nearly 15 years. The beancounters, not the boatwrights, run the show these days.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 09:30   #19
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,576
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
Kinda stuck on the vibration issue. Of course, it almost doesn't matter - a new boat should survive getting a chunk of line caught on the prop, but if you know what the vibration was, it can be ruled out as an issue, which should be the first step. Without knowing the make and model, it is impossible to suggest looking anywhere else. Just off the top of my head I would say the entire deck structure is flexing something awful, maybe even visibly. Out in left field sits a problem with the gelcoat - too thick and too hot. Still, it shouldn't crack this fast.
If the boat is overtuned or is structurally insufficient or the shaft is misaligned (or all three), that could start cracking the gelcoat and leading to "bad vibration". If the boat's trying to pull itself apart after 10 hours, it's more than a cosmetic issue.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 09:55   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

I'm with Ann on this one. Either new boat (lawyer up and prepare to pay) or money back.
If you accept a "fixed" boat you better have a whole new deck.
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 10:26   #21
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,366
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

First... you need to determine the vibration issue. It may or may not be related to the cracking. You just kept running the boat with a severe issue? I cant imagine any vibration (if the boat keeps going!) that should crack the coachroof. In fact, it's possible that engine alignment etc may be an "owner required maintenance". (not saying the manufacturer didn't screw this up!) It could be the cutlass bearing was never secured, the prop shaft could have been bent in launching etc etc.
Was the boat "commissioned"? By who? The builder or a broker?

Second, you need a pro to diagnose the cracking issue. It's possible the coachroof resin mix was out of whack and very brittle and defective. ( I have seen one of the most highly touted US made boats delivered to the local selling office with severe deck cracking form a hot mix resin)

Third: whatever the issue is, I would try to resolve it with the builder in an amicable way first. Make an appointment and sit down with the company president if you can and explain your issues, how much you spent etc. He may be unaware and ready to kick someone's ass for all you know.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 10:42   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alberta
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 86
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

It will depends upon the terms of sale and whether the manufacturer's warranty replace those at common law or under consumer protection statutes....and that will depend upon both the wording in the warranty and the laws in your jurisdiction.

At common law there is usually an implied warranty that the goods are fit for their intended purpose and of merchantable quality...but as I said that may be replaced or supplemented by

Not trying to be smart or unsympathetic but if you can afford a 50ft yacht then you can surely afford the advice of a good lawyer who not only can tell you what your rights are but also help you negotiate through the mess rather than looking for free advice from a bunch of questionable 'authorities' as on this forum.

At the very least do the following immediately (1) confirm things in writing with the manufacturer (2) make notes immediately after all meetings, conversations telephone calls w=as to what was said (3) take lots of pictures (with tape measure in the pictures showing dimensions (4) get an extensive report from a good surveyor who could appear as an expert witness if and when th sh*t hits the fan it will) (5) get 2 or 3 repair estimates ....do all this while rushing off to your lawyer

Just my 2 bits
__________________
foothillsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 11:02   #23
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
First... you need to determine the vibration issue. It may or may not be related to the cracking. You just kept running the boat with a severe issue? I cant imagine any vibration (if the boat keeps going!) that should crack the coachroof. In fact, it's possible that engine alignment etc may be an "owner required maintenance". (not saying the manufacturer didn't screw this up!) It could be the cutlass bearing was never secured, the prop shaft could have been bent in launching etc etc.
Was the boat "commissioned"? By who? The builder or a broker?

Second, you need a pro to diagnose the cracking issue. It's possible the coachroof resin mix was out of whack and very brittle and defective. ( I have seen one of the most highly touted US made boats delivered to the local selling office with severe deck cracking form a hot mix resin)

Third: whatever the issue is, I would try to resolve it with the builder in an amicable way first. Make an appointment and sit down with the company president if you can and explain your issues, how much you spent etc. He may be unaware and ready to kick someone's ass for all you know.


Without seeing the cracking or experiencing the vibration and initial sailing, it is speculation on our part.

But, I think Cheechako's advice above is the best so far.

Also, because we are all so curious, can you post some photos of the cracking (closeup photos)? You do not have to reveal the name of the maker or model.

Good luck!
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 11:12   #24
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 4
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Thank you for all your kind words and advice - they are appreciated.

We have been told that the vibration issue may be down to a wooden bulkhead settling into place. There may be something to this as the noise and creaking has reduced significantly. But I remain sceptical about this explanation as the cause of the multiple fracturing.

Consumer law with regards fit for use, and free from minor defects etc... gives me some hope while investigations are underway.

Ironically I am starting to hope matters deteriorate to such an extent that a repair given the guarantees that will be required, will simply be not cost effective. Though perhaps I'm clutching at straws.
__________________
Snowdrop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 11:24   #25
Registered User
 
ontherocks83's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Checkmate Strobe 201
Posts: 1,593
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
More mainstream than Bene? Cat or mono?

I think your first course of action will have to be letting the manufacturer treat it as a warranty and give a good attempt at making you happy. Perhaps you should try to get them into an agreement that a surveyor chosen by you will be involved in isolating the problem and assessing the fix?

Mark
Hey hey hey definitely not a Catalina. They dont make a 50 footer any more.

I'm guessing Hunter or one of those French ben/jean type boats with the ikea made interiors. Yup definitely more likely one of those rather then my precious Catalina
__________________
-Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
-Molon Labe
ontherocks83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 11:25   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Bulkheads don't "settle into place" on boats. If they are floating free, then they were not constructed/installed properly. A moving bulkhead is one of the most alarming things that can happen on a boat. Provided we are not talking about a non-structural shelf/divider or similar.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 11:26   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
Hey hey hey definitely not a Catalina. They dont make a 50 footer any more.

I'm guessing Hunter or one of those French ben/jean type boats with the ikea made interiors. Yup definitely more likely one of those rather then my precious Catalina
Cat = catamaran in my post. That wasn't clear to me then, but it is now.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 11:30   #28
Registered User
 
ontherocks83's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Checkmate Strobe 201
Posts: 1,593
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Cat = catamaran in my post. That wasn't clear to me then, but it is now.

Mark
Ha! Definitely read that wrong. Saw cat and immediately went on the defensive of my brand of choosing

Can I be slightly embarrassed but let my statement stand anyways?
__________________
-Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
-Molon Labe
ontherocks83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 11:39   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 141
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

I am curious why we are not seeing pictures.... is that some sort of legal issue?
__________________
rbyham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2015, 11:58   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
sailalibi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Marathon Fl. USA/Bahamas
Boat: Allied Seawind II 32ft ketch
Posts: 62
Re: 10 hours at sea after handover major problems

Yes, and now I'm curious. I'm surprised that the builder isn't worried that this might hit the media soon.
__________________

__________________
sailalibi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine hours how many over 10k hours? stevensuf Engines and Propulsion Systems 1 10-05-2015 20:50
Man overboard rescued after 1.5 hours at sea HansSolo General Sailing Forum 10 03-04-2014 00:30
Major Generator Problems (Formerly Pink vs. Green Coolant for Kohler Genset?) Dockhead Engines and Propulsion Systems 39 29-06-2012 16:39
Gord, You're a Lucky Man ! (Other Read too - Major Anchoring Problems) ssullivan Anchoring & Mooring 31 11-05-2007 12:40
Finally joined after many hours of reading... Gibbous Meets & Greets 4 12-11-2006 21:08



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.