Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 14-09-2013, 10:31   #16
Registered User
 
bbowers2004's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Bahmamas
Boat: Westerly Centaur 26'
Posts: 298
Send a message via AIM to bbowers2004 Send a message via MSN to bbowers2004 Send a message via Yahoo to bbowers2004 Send a message via Skype™ to bbowers2004
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

I pay 13 dollars for a year of rescue insurance for six figures....I'd figure these guys could afford that
__________________

__________________
"My goal in sailing isn't to be brilliant or flashy in individual races, just to be consistent over the long run." - Dennis Conner
Follow our Globe Circumnavigation:
http://jillionsvoyage.blogspot.de/
bbowers2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 10:32   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Boat: Charter
Posts: 171
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
A frequent argument in the states is about people not wanting to wear motorcycle helmets. Many of these people don't have medical insurance either.
Hey, leave them alone! We need their donor organs for transplants.
__________________

__________________
sec906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 10:42   #18
Registered User
 
jeremiason's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Punta Gorda, Florida
Boat: Sea Ray 270
Posts: 1,427
Images: 2
Send a message via ICQ to jeremiason Send a message via Yahoo to jeremiason Send a message via Skype™ to jeremiason
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I think David M put it perfectly. If a commercial venture then why should tax payers (Canadian or US) have to pay for their problems. And I think his way of defining commercial is as good as any I could conjure up.
OK where do you stop...

Should the governments charge cruise ships, container ships, off shore oil rigs or even sanctioned off-shore sailboat races for rescues since they are commercial ventures making tons of money?

Although it does piss me off... I am afraid that if governments took the position of fining or charging people for rescues, then the first person to get a bill would be the guy who owns a 35 foot sailboat.
__________________
Tom Jeremiason
Punta Gorda, Florida

jeremiason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 10:52   #19
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,748
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbowers2004 View Post
I pay 13 dollars for a year of rescue insurance for six figures....I'd figure these guys could afford that
Interesting. Can you provide any further info?

Insurance company and program name (web link)?

Any geographic limits?
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 10:57   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

Maybe for some of the more barren passages you need a permit; that seems reasonable if it gets to be a real issue. In Svalbard you need to carry a high caliber rifle capable of killing a polar bear, purchase SAR insurance, and obtain a permit in advance.

Seems reasonable enough for the tiny amount of vessels considering the NW passage that Canada could put in a simple $100 permit and have a basic inspection done to verify you have at least enough equipment to support a rescue.

I'm pretty sure vessels transiting to or near Antarctica need to go through a permitting process as well. Drake's Passage, Antarctica, NW Passage, Svalbard, and others spots I'm sure seem to carry an excessively high risk (both to vessels and SAR teams) and relatively low traffic.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 11:08   #21
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,943
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

if nothing else, idiots provide some SAR training opportunities, and give the SAR guys their bar stories.

But no, I don't think SAR people should deliberately be endangered by the actions of others. Some sort of requirement for competence and proper preparation would be reasonable... and I would also require some sort of filming permit, same as what many cities do.
__________________
Lake-Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 11:12   #22
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 2,827
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

Evans could perhaps add some real info here, but I believe the Chilean gov was requiring insurance several years ago to go down south. I believe there was an issue of no one being able to get insurance. It would seem to me the easiest thing would be to change the international treaties to a tonnage limit somewhat higher than whatever the largest private yachts are. This would keep governments, NZ especially, from being bound by treaty to perform these types if rescues.
__________________
Check out my MoJo: Facebook.com/mojomarine1
Boatguy30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 11:52   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 126
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
A frequent argument in the states is about people not wanting to wear motorcycle helmets. Many of these people don't have medical insurance either. So in an effort to demonstrate their desire to not have the government tell them what to do, they have the government take tax money and spend it on them for acting like selfish children.

(I'm sitting at ~80k motorcycle miles by the age of 35)

It's aggravating watching tax money spent on stupid things, it's even more aggravating when it's spent on people who claim to want "less government". Similar to that couple that got rescued and flown home to Arizona when they left the US because of "too much government".

If you get your ass chased down by a skiff full of RPG-7 armed pirates with a 50 cal deck gun, feel free to broadcast on the radio that you want "less government" and as such don't want any coalition war ships to burn excess fuel trying to get to you quickly.

I don't have a problem paying taxes because I use and enjoy government services of many flavors. If you want to experience less government, move to Mogadishu. Oh what's that, you want basic security, emergency medical services, a fire department, decent reciprocal visa statuses, embassies to help you when you get mugged and beaten in any country? Open your wallet and pay your taxes.
I don't own a motorcycle, but I'm with the guys who don't want to be told they have to wear a helmet. I believe it's safer to wear one in most cases, but is a personal issue that should be left to the individual. While you look at it as the individuals acting childish, I see the ever increasing encrouchment of personal liberties by the government as treating us like children. Consider NYC, where I can't have a soda more than 20oz, salt, trans-fat in my food, and who knows what else is in the minds of the control-freak politicians. The amount of taxpayer money spent on stupid things dwarfs what is spent on the actions of stupid people. We shouldn't have to accept <20oz soda pop just so we can also have the protection from the pirates or the roads and bridges, etc. Reasonable Taxes for a reasonable government and personal responsibility.

Your choice of over zealous government or basically no government is not an accurate view of most people who think less government is better. I am happy to pay taxes to protect against pirates, high seas rescue, and other obvious necessities that governments should provide. I think people should be responsible for their actions, but as far as requiring taxes ( permits) to travel in international waters or a government bureaucrat defining the difference between "daredevil" acts from solo sailing is not something I could support. From what I've seen, government bureaucracies tend to expand and grow in small increments. Before you realize it, you will need a permit to exit the marina.
__________________
El Rubio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 12:00   #24
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

"No, I'm with Dave. Keep paying those taxes and be thankful we are rich enough to cover for the few idiots. Otherwise we'll all be defined as idiots, and all have to carry more insurance than we already do." Mike O'Reilly



Mike, this concept might work for you Canadians, but it is the reason we Americans have a nearly 18 trillion dollar deficit and and are on the path to bankruptcy/collapse. Without "reason" and "standards" in government, the system cannot survive. These reality goons should pay for their pathetic fiasco and not burden the Canadian taxpayer. This theater of the absurd is very different from a sailor being rescued offshore. Good luck and good sailing.
__________________
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 12:21   #25
Registered User
 
bgallinger's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Jupiter, FL
Boat: Hunter 340
Posts: 350
Images: 10
Send a message via AIM to bgallinger
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

I read that the rescue involved several hundred thousand dollars. Meanwhile I'm relieved that do not pay Canadian taxes! I wonder...could the Canadian gov't come up with an IQ test before more fools race off into the arctic in sailboats? Have 'em post a bond too!
__________________
bgallinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 12:27   #26
Marine Service Provider
 
Tony B's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Presently in Rogersville, Al
Boat: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin
Posts: 695
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

[QUOTE=rognvald;1339633...... This theater of the absurd is very different from a sailor being rescued offshore. .......[/QUOTE]

Oh really?
By who's definition?
I think reality shows are stupid and I don't watch any of them. Whether some of their stunts require sheer stupidity or very large balls is depending on your attitude towards it.
Hard to imagine that our forefathers were a bunch of sniffling little wimps, cowering in a corner, discussing the idea of a revolution.
While some stunts are crazy, others are highly productive. These are folks with adventure in their blood. Some day some of them will be over achievers while some of us will still be living hum-drum lives finding fault with everything we can't do.
These guys and gals don't go out with the idea of being rescued any more than a cruising sailor or an around the world racer.

Oh, and BTW, states like La. allow no helmets but you have to prove a minimum amount of medical insurance so that the others people wont have to subsidize their head injuries.
__________________
Mainship 36 DC - 1986
Retired and Full Time Cruising the Eastern U.S. inland Waterways
www.FreeBoatProjects.com
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 12:31   #27
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,748
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
Evans could perhaps add some real info here, but I believe the Chilean gov was requiring insurance several years ago to go down south. I believe there was an issue of no one being able to get insurance.
Chile (still has) a law that allows the harbor masters at their discretion
to either require a yacht have insurance or to take on a Chilean Pilot.

The actual type of insurance was never specified. They meant/wanted both search and rescue and salvage to be paid to the Chilean armada, but simple liability only insurance met the letter of the law. There did not seem to be any insurance product in the world selling the actual coverage that the Chileans actually wanted. Finally, quite a number of cruisers produced 'laser printed insurance cover', and the port officers could not tell if they were real insurance or just printed paper. Net net the law has never worked well, and as far as I know no insurance has ever paid for any of the 'rescue' work the armada has ever done.

Svalbard has an SAR insurance requirement (to visit most of the island except the main town), but in this case there are providers who actually sell the required insurance. Again, to my knowledge, the Norwegians have not actually called on the insurance to pay for any rescues.
__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 12:34   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: Westsail 28
Posts: 684
Images: 12
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

I vote yes for more regulations and restriction please...beginning with those reckless and irresponsible fat people. No fat people should be allowed to eat in public, supersize any meal, or purchase junk food...It's just too risky. Fat people cost the US government over 147 billion dollars per year. When they die of an obesity related illness, the government should charge their estate the medical costs.
That would pay for a lot of NW passage rescues.
__________________
virginia boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 12:35   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 114
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
A frequent argument in the states is about people not wanting to wear motorcycle helmets. Many of these people don't have medical insurance either. So in an effort to demonstrate their desire to not have the government tell them what to do, they have the government take tax money and spend it on them for acting like selfish children.

(I'm sitting at ~80k motorcycle miles by the age of 35)

It's aggravating watching tax money spent on stupid things, it's even more aggravating when it's spent on people who claim to want "less government". Similar to that couple that got rescued and flown home to Arizona when they left the US because of "too much government".

If you get your ass chased down by a skiff full of RPG-7 armed pirates with a 50 cal deck gun, feel free to broadcast on the radio that you want "less government" and as such don't want any coalition war ships to burn excess fuel trying to get to you quickly.

I don't have a problem paying taxes because I use and enjoy government services of many flavors. If you want to experience less government, move to Mogadishu. Oh what's that, you want basic security, emergency medical services, a fire department, decent reciprocal visa statuses, embassies to help you when you get mugged and beaten in any country? Open your wallet and pay your taxes.
Excuse me as im a noob here, but are you suggesting there is no government pork barrel spending? Are you suggesting that government spending could not be trimmed at all? I have yet to hear people who want 'less government' say that they dont want any government at all. And maybe you could enlighten the rest of us as to how much US taxes you pay annually.
__________________
Captain Bligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 13:13   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Boat: Charter
Posts: 171
Re: Who will pay to rescue these idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgallinger View Post
I read that the rescue involved several hundred thousand dollars.
I wonder how they calculated that? Don't you wonder why they never report how much money was spent as a result of this rescue above and beyond what would have been spent anyway?

I'd guess this figure is the total cost of all the personnel and equipment with any involvement in the rescue. But what is the incremental cost between this operation versus having all the personnel and equipment sitting idle? What is the incremental cost of this rescue over doing a training exercise SAR?

What is the "real" cost?
__________________

__________________
sec906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rescue

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:30.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.