Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-12-2012, 13:52   #31
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

You might also consider a diesel hydronic system. They allow some control over individual cabin heat and they can make use of engine heat as well. The water piping takes up less space than air ducts
__________________

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 01:37   #32
Registered User
 
Fenchurch9's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Washington, NJ
Boat: '72 Westsail 32
Posts: 21
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
I am looking for simplicity in design and operation and the gravity fed diesel heaters (Dickinson, Reflex) appear to be thae best choice with one possible caveat: many respondants who have owned these units lament the accumulation of soo. that despoils their cabin top and sails. Is this an anomaly or is it part of the price to pay for these heaters. We are hopefully nearing our next planned departure and wI'll exit the St. Lawrence and cruise Newfoundland and Labrador before heading South. A simple and effective heater is a necessity. Is this a concern? Are these the best choices?
We burn K1 in ours and we have absolutely no build up or soot. Also, you need to be sure thst the stack and all the parts in the heater are clean. As to prepping w alcohol; the alcohol heats up the little heater and gets it good and warm, also creating a draft It helps get the diesel burning w/o soot. We have never had soot or dark smoke come out of the stack. You want the alcohol to almost create a vortex prior to opening the diesel fuel line up the rest of the way. So heres how we prime our little heater:
1. Turn on the diesel valve at the gravity tank
2. Turn the knob that controls the diesel a little bit snd watch as a small amt of dies
el forms a little puddle in the bottom of the heater. You may need to take out some parts to see this. We have a part that looks like a tripod we remove and a ring.
3. Now measure out about 1 oz of alcohol. We actually use a shot glass for this, and pour it in the heater.
4.replace the parts you removed
5. Light a wadded up tissue or some tp and toss it in the heater.
6. Wait and watch the alcohol burn for about 5 mins and then go ahead and turn the knob or whatever you have to start allowing the fuel to flow.
7. The heater should be nice and hot enough to get your fuel burning really well.
Remember... dont skimp on the alcohol but dont over do it.if the alcohol burns out b4 you start the diesel flowing you'll have to wait to restart it or risk burning down you boat. Dont worry, its not as bad as it seems. And good luck.
__________________

__________________
Fenchurch9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 09:58   #33
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenchurch9 View Post
We burn K1 in ours and we have absolutely no build up or soot. Also, you need to be sure thst the stack and all the parts in the heater are clean. As to prepping w alcohol; the alcohol heats up the little heater and gets it good and warm, also creating a draft It helps get the diesel burning w/o soot. We have never had soot or dark smoke come out of the stack. You want the alcohol to almost create a vortex prior to opening the diesel fuel line up the rest of the way. So heres how we prime our little heater:
1. Turn on the diesel valve at the gravity tank
2. Turn the knob that controls the diesel a little bit snd watch as a small amt of dies
el forms a little puddle in the bottom of the heater. You may need to take out some parts to see this. We have a part that looks like a tripod we remove and a ring.
3. Now measure out about 1 oz of alcohol. We actually use a shot glass for this, and pour it in the heater.
4.replace the parts you removed
5. Light a wadded up tissue or some tp and toss it in the heater.
6. Wait and watch the alcohol burn for about 5 mins and then go ahead and turn the knob or whatever you have to start allowing the fuel to flow.
7. The heater should be nice and hot enough to get your fuel burning really well.
Remember... dont skimp on the alcohol but dont over do it.if the alcohol burns out b4 you start the diesel flowing you'll have to wait to restart it or risk burning down you boat. Dont worry, its not as bad as it seems. And good luck.


Fenchurch, what heater do you have? Are you happy with its performance? Did you do the installation? Your comments/opinion would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Rognvald
__________________
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 23:56   #34
Registered User
 
Fenchurch9's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Washington, NJ
Boat: '72 Westsail 32
Posts: 21
Smile Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Fenchurch, what heater do you have? Are you happy with its performance? Did you do the installation? Your comments/opinion would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Rognvald
Rognvald,
We have a Sigmar 100. It's small but our boat isn't that big. We are happy with the performance. It is very economical. We did not install it. It was new when we purchased the boat. It was a replacement for an early 70's Dickinson solid fuel heater. We did needed to move it a little lower on the bulkhead. It was a cake job.
We have lusted over a Sardine but it's just not practical. For the amt of space we have, the diesel heater is the most effective and pushes out the most BTU's. It will burn 24 hrs on 1 gallon of fuel turned on midway.
One more thing; I would strongly suggest that you do not feed the gravity tank directly from the fuel tank for the engine. We have a separate tank for the heater fuel and pump it up into the gravity tank.
We are very pleased with it but I must say that SIGMAR SUCKS for customer service. I'm sure they are fine when trying to get you to buy their product but once you purchase it, you are on your own. We have called and emailed repeatedly and they NEVER returned any of our calls or responded to any of our emails.
Good Luck with your choice.
__________________
Fenchurch9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2012, 00:22   #35
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
You might also consider a diesel hydronic system. They allow some control over individual cabin heat and they can make use of engine heat as well. The water piping takes up less space than air ducts
We have this, it has a lot of advantages, but I wouldn't recommend it to the OP. For one thing, it uses quite of electrical power (pumps, fancoils, forced air burner, etc.). For another, and more importantly, it is not field serviceable. If it fails to start for any reason a couple times in a row, it shuts down tight and won't do anything until a certified service tech puts his expensive service instrument on it and resets a code. Hard to find that in remote areas. I think he'd be better off with a simple gravity-fed stove which he can fix himself.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2012, 11:46   #36
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
We have this, it has a lot of advantages, but I wouldn't recommend it to the OP. For one thing, it uses quite of electrical power (pumps, fancoils, forced air burner, etc.). For another, and more importantly, it is not field serviceable. If it fails to start for any reason a couple times in a row, it shuts down tight and won't do anything until a certified service tech puts his expensive service instrument on it and resets a code. Hard to find that in remote areas. I think he'd be better off with a simple gravity-fed stove which he can fix himself.
For all those reasons, you are correct.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2012, 16:47   #37
Registered User
 
cwyckham's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Niagara 35
Posts: 1,870
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
We have this, it has a lot of advantages, but I wouldn't recommend it to the OP. For one thing, it uses quite of electrical power (pumps, fancoils, forced air burner, etc.). For another, and more importantly, it is not field serviceable. If it fails to start for any reason a couple times in a row, it shuts down tight and won't do anything until a certified service tech puts his expensive service instrument on it and resets a code. Hard to find that in remote areas. I think he'd be better off with a simple gravity-fed stove which he can fix himself.
Don't lump all diesel hydronic systems in the same bucket. My Hurricane proved to be quite servicable when I had to replace the fuel pump, and the customer service was amazing over the phone. It certainly doesn't shut itself down like that. It will kick a code and is designed to be user servicable. They even have videos on their website on how to service it.

I do agree that although the hydronic systems are probably the gold standard as far as usability, they are also probably more complex than the OP is looking for.
__________________
cwyckham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2012, 17:19   #38
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,042
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

If you have the battery capacity for it, I've learned that some of the mattress heating pads (think electric blanket, but it goes under you so it is more effective) apparently consume about 100W and run on low-voltage dc, which may mean 12v, as a safety factor. 100 Watts, 12 volts, 8 hours...66 AH per night? True, it won't warm the cabin, but it should keep the bunk toasty, especially if you have shore power.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2012, 17:30   #39
Registered User
 
Nessus's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 69
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

If I had a choice I would choose a solid fuel stove. Coal and wood. Certainly wood and coal provide a much dryer heat. My experience with diesel heaters has been damp with the fuel cooking to much moisture into the cabin; unacceptable humidity. However diesel stoves may have come a long way since I last used one 20 years ago. A draw back with wood is it's impossible to split on deck and dangerous to split on the dock. If all things were equal I would prefer the nice dry heat coal provides.
__________________
Nessus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2012, 17:56   #40
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,042
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

"A draw back with wood is it's impossible to split on deck"
Nah, that's a business opportunity. Coupla blocks, a come-al-long, some angle iron, or you can hook up to your winch and split 'em just like a hydraulic log splitter does.

Diesel heaters, like diesel ovens, will vent moisture into the cabin unless they are built like the Esbachers, with closed ventilation and all combustion gasses taken in and fed out without any release in the cabin. Toasty dry.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2012, 18:16   #41
Registered User
 
Nessus's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 69
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"A draw back with wood is it's impossible to split on deck"
Nah, that's a business opportunity. Coupla blocks, a come-al-long, some angle iron, or you can hook up to your winch and split 'em just like a hydraulic log splitter does.
Brilliant!!
__________________
Nessus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2012, 18:57   #42
Formerly: Capt Wraun
 
Sir Rondo Normal's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Port Louis, Haida Gwaii (The edge of the world)
Boat: Corbin39 CC Cutter Rig
Posts: 431
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

We have a Fab-All diesel heater. Fab-All later became Dickenson. The way it is set up on our boat is with a pump from the main diesel tank. We used it last winter this way and did have quite a bit of soot on the deck. This winter, we were not planning on using it, as we are paying a flat rate for electricity anyway. I don't like the electric heat. Too much humidity in the boat. We were way drier last year.
Anyway, I have decided to install a gravity tank and switch from diesel fuel to HF II (home heating fuel). It's more like kerosene and burns cleaner than diesel, (according to my boss). He should know, he runs the Chevron agency where I work.
If you are not in a hurry, I can let you know how it works for us but it won't be any time soon because I want to burn our diesel fuel first so I can clean out the diesel tanks.
Other than the soot though, I love this little heater. You can't get any simpler and I love the heat it gives. We just fired it up yesterday for the first time this season and it's so much better than electric.
__________________
*** If it ain't broke... just wait! ***
Sir Rondo Normal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2012, 18:02   #43
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

Quote:
Diesel heaters, like diesel ovens, will vent moisture into the cabin unless they are built like the Esbachers, with closed ventilation and all combustion gasses taken in and fed out without any release in the cabin. Toasty dry.
Nonsense...diesel heaters, cook stoves and ovens are all vented outside, at least every one that I have seen. They put out as dry a heat as any coal or wood stove. Most of the humidity in a boat comes from propane stoves (cooking), showers and us. And it is probably us that puts the most humidity into the inside of a boat.
__________________
DeepFrz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2012, 19:49   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Blue Hill, Maine
Boat: Sea Sprite 34
Posts: 91
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

In all of these useful answers, there is only one mentioning a propane heater. Are they generally considered just too - what?.
__________________
Surrymark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2012, 20:22   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 474
Re: Onboard Heat for Northern Climes

The cheapest is a blanket, sleeping bag, a good hat, and a jacket. Maybe even an electric blanket if it is really cold.
__________________

__________________
SunDevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:59.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.