NW passage

[Connemara]

We do.

Connemara
(in Toronto)

[quidam]

It seems like a "no-brainer" that it would be in Canadian control.

I think thats a good thing when you consider Canada's attitudes toward environmental concerns v/s those in the U.S. and Russia.

[Exocet]

Depending on who you ask, depends who thinks they own it. The US has been trying to force thier point as way back as 1969 when the Ship "Manhatten" went through the passage. To as recently as a few weeks back when a Russian plane was sent back over the border by canadian airforce, again trying to put a claim on the Artic. The Canadian Gov. announced the building of a bunch of icebreakers about 2 years back, and these will be used for the Artic waters, mainly to assert Canadian soverignty. Back in 1950's the Canadian Gov. relocated whole villages to the Artic from Newfoundland, again trying to establish soveringty.
Anyway, its sourounded by Canadian territory, something bad happens to you, it's canadians coming to the rescue (Sea, Air, or Police). With the longest contiual demonstrated gaurdianship, think the world courts will lean toward Canada.

[Celestialsailor]

This will be another case where if Canada takes it to the UN the U.S. and Russia will not attend. It's such a farce. I think Canada learned it's lesson when they gave away Alaska.

[s/v Jedi]

Hmmm, wasn't it Russia that sold Alaska to the US?

We met Cloud Nine in Trinidad in 2004/2005. They did an failed attempt years before that and were outfitting to try it again. They gave me a very good DVD with stunning scenery about their first attempt. Check them out:

http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_en-USPA299PA303&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q="cloud+nine"+passage

cheers,
Nick.

[roverhi]

Gee, I thought the US bought Alaska from Russia. 'Seward's Folly' you know.

Russia has been making noises about claiming the entire arctic as their economic preserve. Something about mineral resources, I believe. The US didn't agree claiming territorial rights to the waters next to our territory and believe Canada takes a similar position. The US position is that the sea itself is open ocean with no national territorial rights.

The NW passage is another story as it's mostly within Canada's territorial waters. Canada may be able to charge a toll to enhance the exchequer and/or cover the costs of maintaining the navigability.

The whole thing may be mute, however. If the cooling trend of the last three years continues we'll be in an Ice age within 100 years.

Aloha
Peter O
Pearson 35

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Hmmm, wasn't it Russia that sold Alaska to the US?

We met Cloud Nine in Trinidad in 2004/2005. They did an failed attempt years before that and were outfitting to try it again. They gave me a very good DVD with stunning scenery about their first attempt. Check them out:

http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_en-USPA299PA303&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q="cloud+nine"+passage

cheers,
Nick.

Now that's weird...You're right. I looked it up on Wikipedia. I was taught in Canadian classrooms as a kid that it was Canada.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Now that's weird...You're right. I looked it up on Wikipedia. I was taught in Canadian classrooms as a kid that it was Canada.

I taught Social Studies in Canadian classrooms for over 30 years. It was always Seward's Folly. I hope I did not teach you

Jack

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Now that's weird...You're right. I looked it up on Wikipedia. I was taught in Canadian classrooms as a kid that it was Canada.

I'm curious where those classrooms were? The Alaska Purchase predates Confederation.

I think there's a lot of confusion about whom is claiming what. Russia is not claiming any Canadian territory - they're claiming sea-bed under the polar ice-cap. The dispute over the Northwest Passage concerns the measurement of baselines - since the passage is over 24 miles in breadth, the US and others argue that the waters beyond Canada's 12 mile territorial claim are international waters. Canada asserts that the portion of the passage that is completely surrounded by Canadian land is internal waters. Both are valid arguments as UNCLOS allows for both cases - and the matter is still before the UN. Even if the waters are classed as Canadian internal waters, innocent passage (archipelagic passage) would still be allowed to the world's shipping.

[Exocet]

Yes Russia sold Alaska to the US, but what about the panhandle? Anyone remember the saying 54-40 or bust?

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Exocet

Yes Russia sold Alaska to the US, but what about the panhandle? Anyone remember the saying 54-40 or bust?

Great rock group, and Canadian, eh?

Jack

[captain58sailin]

Alaska was formally transferred from Russia to USA, Oct. 18, 1867, for the tidy sum of 2 cents per acre.
54/40 Was the Oregon territory northern line. 54* 40' N x 140* W, that was contested with England and our "Manifest Destiny" prevailed.
If Canada want to buy Alaska, I would promise to start saying "eh?" a lot, I do anyway, seems my hearing isn't what it used to be.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

54/40 Was the Oregon territory northern line. 54* 40' N x 140* W, that was contested with England and our "Manifest Destiny" prevailed.

If Manifest Destiny prevailed, why was the border drawn at the 49th parallel?

Jack

[captain58sailin]

There is this wonderful new invention called the internet that can be accessed by computers and if you have one of those computers you can go on the internet and look up the Treaty of Washington (1846), and perhaps that will answer all of your questions. "Manifest Destiny is the historical belief that the United States is destined and divinely ordained by God to expand across the North American continent, from the Atlantic seaboard to the Pacific Ocean. Sometimes Manifest Destiny was interpreted so widely as to include the eventual absorption of all North America: Canada, Mexico, Cuba and Central America. Advocates of Manifest Destiny believed that expansion was not only good, but that it was obvious ("manifest") and certain ("destiny"). Originally a political catch phrase of the 19th century, "Manifest Destiny" eventually became a standard historical term, sometimes used as a synonym for the expansion of the United States across the North American continent which the belief inspired or was used to justify.
The term was first used primarily by Jacksonian Democrats in the 1840s to promote the annexation of much of what is now the Western United States (the Oregon Territory, the Texas Annexation, and the Mexican Cession). It was revived in the 1890s, this time with Republican supporters, as a theoretical justification for U.S. expansion outside of North America. The term fell out of usage by U.S. policy makers early in the 20th century, but some commentators believe that aspects of Manifest Destiny, particularly the belief in an American "mission" to promote and defend democracy throughout the world, continues to have an influence on American political ideology." -From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
We did in fact fulfill our manifest destiny, just not to the 54/40 line, political jingoism does not constitute historical fact.

[jackdale]

I learned about manifest destiny from an old fashioned technology - books, as a history major in university (graduated in 1969). It was a contributing factor in Canada becoming a nation.

The border is still 340 nautical miles south of 54 / 40. That is why Alaska is not part of lower 48.

BTW - from the Internet

Jack