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Old 17-05-2018, 16:07   #1171
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
That is not the image you posted.
they look like he same temperature reconstructs to me .

What is your problem with them
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Old 17-05-2018, 17:18   #1172
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
The greatest deception men suffer is their own opinions.
-Leonardo da Vinci

So actually China is doing quite a lot in the field of renewable energy. And while they've now become the country with the largest carbon emissions, they still are far less than the US in terms of CO2 emissions per capita.

China Is the New World Leader in Renewable Energy | Futurism


China leads in global shift to renewable energy | DW


Here are six of China’s ambitious, mind-boggling, renewable energy projects | CNBC


China's renewable energy revolution | McKinsey


China on track to lead in renewables as US retreats, report says | The Guardian
(Ya gotta luv that tRump administration -- )


For every $1 the US put into adding renewable energy last year, China put in $3 | Quartz


China wants to dominate the world’s green energy markets – here’s why | The Conversation
This would be impressive if the planet cared about emissions on a per capita basis, or if it bestowed "carbon credits" to offset its biggest source of CO2 and other emissions, but once again the reality is quite different than what you'd prefer to believe.

https://blog.energybrainpool.com/en/...ed-generation/

If you read the article, you might understand why China's growth in renewables won't do much to reduce their overwhelming dependency on coal anytime soon. And I assume you're aware that coal is the cheapest but also the most harmful type of fossil fuel for the environment. And then there's the aggressive construction of coal-fired plants that the Chinese are building all over the developing world. But as you say, they're also proficient at manufacturing multitudes of cheap solar panels so all is good.

Now who would ol' Leonardo believe is being deceived . . . .
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Old 17-05-2018, 17:55   #1173
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
This would be impressive if the planet cared about emissions on a per capita basis, or if it bestowed "carbon credits" to offset its biggest source of CO2 and other emissions, but once again the reality is quite different than what you'd prefer to believe.

https://blog.energybrainpool.com/en/...ed-generation/

If you read the article, you might understand why China's growth in renewables won't do much to reduce their overwhelming dependency on coal anytime soon. And I assume you're aware that coal is the cheapest but also the most harmful type of fossil fuel for the environment. And then there's the aggressive construction of coal-fired plants that the Chinese are building all over the developing world. But as you say, they're also proficient at manufacturing multitudes of cheap solar panels so all is good.



Now who would ol' Leonardo believe is being deceived . . . .
You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile
...And finally there is a camp who believe, quite realistically imho, that to the extent our impact is significant that there isn't much we can do about it beyond what we're already doing (and China, India and other parts of the developing are not doing and unlikely to do).
My response successfully refuted your incorrect assertion that "China is not doing, and is unlikely to do" anything "significant" "beyond what we're already doing."

China is, if fact, doing much more than the US in developing renewables. The rest of your comment above is a change in topic.

Got to hand it to Leonardo. He knew what he was talking about.
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Old 17-05-2018, 18:05   #1174
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
This would be impressive if the planet cared about emissions on a per capita basis, or if it bestowed "carbon credits" to offset its biggest source of CO2 and other emissions, but once again the reality is quite different than what you'd prefer to believe.

https://blog.energybrainpool.com/en/...ed-generation/

If you read the article, you might understand why China's growth in renewables won't do much to reduce their overwhelming dependency on coal anytime soon. And I assume you're aware that coal is the cheapest but also the most harmful type of fossil fuel for the environment. And then there's the aggressive construction of coal-fired plants that the Chinese are building all over the developing world. But as you say, they're also proficient at manufacturing multitudes of cheap solar panels so all is good.

Now who would ol' Leonardo believe is being deceived . . . .
Even your statement above is arguably incorrect.

"Coal strikes out" versus cheap renewables, but winning on climate may require a policy pinch hitter | Forbes
Quote:
Renewable energy’s relentless cost declines make solar and wind the cheapest and largest source of new electricity generation in many countries, including the world’s fastest-growing nations. But while cheap renewable energy means “coal strikes out,” reducing emissions enough to avoid dangerous climate change requires comprehensive policy action, according to the International Energy Agency’s (IEA) World Energy Outlook 2017.

Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020, Report Claims | Forbes

Quote:
The cost of renewable energy is now falling so fast that it should be a consistently cheaper source of electricity generation than traditional fossil fuels within just a few years, according to a new report from the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA).

The organisation – which has more than 150 member countries – says the cost of generating power from onshore wind has fallen by around 23% since 2010 while the cost of solar photovoltaic (PV) electricity has fallen by 73% in that time. With further price falls expected for these and other green energy options, IRENA says all renewable energy technologies should be competitive on price with fossil fuels by 2020.
New study reaches a stunning conclusion about the cost of solar and wind energy | Think Progress
Quote:
A widely-used yearly benchmarking study — the Levelized Cost of Energy Analysis (LCOE) from the financial firm Lazard Ltd. — reached this stunning conclusion: In many regions “the full-lifecycle costs of building and operating renewables-based projects have dropped below the operating costs alone of conventional generation technologies such as coal or nuclear.”

But Lazard also makes a key global point: It’s more expensive to operate conventional energy sources in the developing world than it is in the United States. So the advantage renewables have over conventional sources is even larger in the rapidly growing electricity markets like India and China.
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Old 17-05-2018, 18:47   #1175
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
You said:

My response successfully refuted your incorrect assertion that "China is not doing, and is unlikely to do" anything "significant" "beyond what we're already doing."

China is, if fact, doing much more than the US in developing renewables. The rest of your comment above is a change in topic.

Got to hand it to Leonardo. He knew what he was talking about.
If you choose to believe that what China is doing is "significant," then by all means, but it defies logic & reason. In the meantime . . .

"As it stands now, only about two percent of China's nearly 1.4 billion people breathe air that meets World Health Organization (WHO) guidelines, the IEA said.

That proportion would rise to only three percent by 2040, even if China meets all the targets set in its expected economic, energy and environmental plans, according to the report."


https://www.rfa.org/english/commenta...017105607.html

This type of thinking, one which would make Leonardo blush, has come up before. To the extent China is developing "green energy" at home, they're aggressively exporting the dirtiest form of energy to the developing world. Despite the propaganda they put out to western media outlets for only the most naive to consume, China has demonstrated little interest in mitigating any threat from MMGW. Their primary interest is quelling protest & dissent from their own citizens who are being sickened by extreme air pollution. You see, that's the biggest threat to totalitarian govt., namely their own people who are being ruled over without their consent. But dumping cheap solar panels and dirty coal-fired power plants on the rest of the world is good for their economy. China does what is best for China and nobody else.

Meanwhile, the U.S. leads every other nation in the world by a wide margin in reducing CO2 emissions through technology alone.

These frequent doses of reality are stressful I'm sure, but you do seem to continue to insist on bringing them on yourself . . . .
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Old 17-05-2018, 18:50   #1176
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Just think, if it all comes to pass then maybe you'll be able to buy your first electric car without any subsidies from your fellow taxpayers!
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Old 17-05-2018, 18:58   #1177
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Just think, if it all comes to pass then maybe you'll be able to buy your first electric car without any subsidies from your fellow taxpayers!
Don't matter how cheap it is. It still won't work when the wind aint blowin' and the sun aint shinin'.
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Old 17-05-2018, 19:39   #1178
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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me thinks you don't actually read the reports
This is from page 2150 of the report
Please link to that report. It is dated 2001. The Shindell at al paper you claim to have read is from 2002.
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Old 17-05-2018, 19:40   #1179
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
me thinks you don't actually read the reports
This is from page 2150 of the report
This is the image you posted



This might be the source.

Intellicast - This Week in Weather

This is the image from the Schindell at al 2002 (from your link)



There is no text associated with the image from the Shindell et al 2002 paper in the link which you provided.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/pape...d2d4b4a3157d42
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Old 17-05-2018, 19:53   #1180
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Please link to that report. It is dated 2001. The Shindell at al paper you claim to have read is from 2002.
please do your own research in your futile attempt to discredit . I provided all I feel ( and many if not most others on here feel) is necessary.
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Old 17-05-2018, 19:54   #1181
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
they look like he same temperature reconstructs to me .

What is your problem with them
Um this is what you posted first.

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Old 17-05-2018, 19:57   #1182
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
This is the image you posted



This might be the source.

Intellicast - This Week in Weather

This is the image from the Schindell at al 2002 (from your link)



There is no text associated with the image from the Shindell et al 2002 paper in the link which you provided.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/pape...d2d4b4a3157d42
Jack they are the same picture please point out what is different in the pictures
The writing is just a summarising of what the picture represents in the article that quoted the paper. The problem seems to be yours

But I shall just call it Hanlon's razor.
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Old 17-05-2018, 19:59   #1183
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
please do your own research in your futile attempt to discredit . I provided all I feel ( and many if not most others on here feel) is necessary.
You provide all you need to show that you are rather "liberal" with the truth.
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Old 17-05-2018, 20:18   #1184
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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please do your own research in your futile attempt to discredit . I provided all I feel ( and many if not most others on here feel) is necessary.
So you have no idea from which site this screenshot was cribbed. Figures.
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Old 17-05-2018, 20:20   #1185
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Jack they are the same picture please point out what is different in the pictures
The writing is just a summarising of what the picture represents in the article that quoted the paper. The problem seems to be yours

But I shall just call it Hanlon's razor.
The text in blue does not appear in the Shindell paper.

Hanlon's razor is very appropriately ascribed to your posts.
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