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Old 14-05-2018, 18:21   #1081
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
You're almost there, and it certainly has more potential than attacking someone's religious beliefs. But as Newhaul pointed out, you still need to make the connection to the data. Besides, you appear only to get your climate science from scientists and others who agree with your opinion.
I did not attack Spencer's religous beliefs. I also do not attack Katherine Hayhoe's religious beliefs. In both cases their religious beliefs shape their science to some extent. I find Hayhoe's beliefs and approach more palatable.
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Old 14-05-2018, 18:24   #1082
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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university dropout or not he got it right and his felony has nothing to do with his research.
From the CRAAP Test

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Authority: The source of the information.
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 What are the author's credentials or organizational affiliations?
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Does the URL reveal anything about the author or source?
examples: .com .edu .gov .org .net
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Old 14-05-2018, 18:32   #1083
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

For those having difficulty assess the credibility of sources, Here is the CRAAP Test:

Quote:
Currency: The timeliness of the information.
 When was the information published or posted?
 Has the information been revised or updated?
 Does your topic require current information, or will older sources work as well?
Are the links functional?
Relevance: The importance of the information for your needs.
 Does the information relate to your topic or answer your question?
 Who is the intended audience?
 Is the information at an appropriate level (i.e. not too elementary or advanced for your needs)?
 Have you looked at a variety of sources before determining this is one you will use?
 Would you be comfortable citing this source in your research paper?
Authority: The source of the information.
 Who is the author/publisher/source/sponsor?
 What are the author's credentials or organizational affiliations?
 Is the author qualified to write on the topic?
 Is there contact information, such as a publisher or email address?
Does the URL reveal anything about the author or source?
examples: .com .edu .gov .org .net
Accuracy: The reliability, truthfulness and correctness of the content.
 Where does the information come from?
 Is the information supported by evidence?
 Has the information been reviewed or refereed?
 Can you verify any of the information in another source or from personal knowledge?
 Does the language or tone seem unbiased and free of emotion?
 Are there spelling, grammar or typographical errors?
Purpose: The reason the information exists.
 What is the purpose of the information? Is it to inform, teach, sell, entertain or persuade?
 Do the authors/sponsors make their intentions or purpose clear?
 Is the information fact, opinion or propaganda?
 Does the point of view appear objective and impartial?
 Are there political, ideological, cultural, religious, institutional or personal biases?
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Old 14-05-2018, 18:52   #1084
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
I did not attack Spencer's religous beliefs. I also do not attack Katherine Hayhoe's religious beliefs. In both cases their religious beliefs shape their science to some extent. I find Hayhoe's beliefs and approach more palatable.
Again, it's more palatable to you because it supports your own opinions, which you've made quite clear are also influenced by politics and personal philosophy. That's all fine & good, but maybe you can find a more constructive and therefore credible way to persuade than making unfounded and stereotyped assumptions about the personal lives of those you don't agree with. Spencer's commentary on what his sat data means may be influenced by his religious beliefs, or perhaps his religious beliefs have been influenced by what he's uncovered from the sat data. We really don't know, which is exactly why the scientific method deems it irrelevant absent evidence that it is resulting in biased or manipulated data.

If you feel the need to discuss what is "palatable" to you, or feel the need to sync your CC opinions with politics, that's also fine & good. But please don't try and represent that what you're doing here amounts to an objective scientific debate.
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Old 14-05-2018, 19:16   #1085
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Again, it's more palatable to you because it supports your own opinions, which you've made quite clear are also influenced by politics and personal philosophy. That's all fine & good, but maybe you can find a more constructive and therefore credible way to persuade than making unfounded and stereotyped assumptions about the personal lives of those you don't agree with. Spencer's commentary on what his sat data means may be influenced by his religious beliefs, or perhaps his religious beliefs have been influenced by what he's uncovered from the sat data. We really don't know, which is exactly why the scientific method deems it irrelevant absent evidence that it is resulting in biased or manipulated data.

If you feel the need to discuss what is "palatable" to you, or feel the need to sync your CC opinions with politics, that's also fine & good. But please don't try and represent that what you're doing here amounts to an objective scientific debate.
Your ability to read my is woefully poor. I have very few concerns with the data from UAH. What have cponcerns about are Spencer's views that climate change is primarily natural. And I have concerns about the testimony that Christy presents in Congress. Their data is pretty good.

I find that Wentz and Mears at RSS are much more science driven in their conclusions. Their web site is also much comprehensive.

I suggest you try comparing RSS to UAH.

BTW - there is no manipulated data coming from NOAA, UAH, RSS, NASA, Hadley... If you want misrepresentations of science try CO2science, NTZ, CFACT, Climate Audit, WUWT, Heartland, CATO, C3headlines, Ice Age Now, Climate Dept (especially Monckton's mashup of RSS data), Tony Heller, etc..
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Old 14-05-2018, 21:09   #1086
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
For those having difficulty assess the credibility of sources, Here is the CRAAP Test:
I don't need to do your college craap test in not trying to impress anyone .
Just showing a differing dataset. Your the one that can't seem to refute the data. Just the source. I feel sorry for you I really do.
For me its about the data and my personal experiences.
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Old 14-05-2018, 21:19   #1087
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
I don't need to do your college craap test in not trying to impress anyone .
Just showing a differing dataset. Your the one that can't seem to refute the data. Just the source. I feel sorry for you I really do.
For me its about the data and my personal experiences.
Really here is some data for you.

The Little Ice Age is a period between about 1300 and 1870 during which Europe and North America were subjected to much colder winters than during the 20th century.

The Maunder Minimum, also known as the "prolonged sunspot minimum", is the name used for the period around 1645 to 1715 during which sunspots became exceedingly rare, as was then noted by solar observers.

The Maunder Minimum could not have caused the Little Ice Age.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There is no correlation between sunspots and temperature.
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Old 14-05-2018, 21:35   #1088
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
I don't need to do your college craap test in not trying to impress anyone .
The CRAAP Test is also used in junior high and senior high.

You are succeeding in not impressing anyone.
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Old 14-05-2018, 21:48   #1089
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Really here is some data for you.

The Little Ice Age is a period between about 1300 and 1870 during which Europe and North America were subjected to much colder winters than during the 20th century.

The Maunder Minimum, also known as the "prolonged sunspot minimum", is the name used for the period around 1645 to 1715 during which sunspots became exceedingly rare, as was then noted by solar observers.

The Maunder Minimum could not have caused the Little Ice Age.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There is no correlation between sunspots and temperature.
jack here is some science for you the cold period from world 1380 ad to 1870 ad
Let's see it started with the wolf minimum lasting 9 solar cycles there was a minor maximum of solar activity for one small cycle and one moderate cycle then there was the sporer minimum lasting 6 solar cycles 2 moderate cycles a minor cycle and then there was the maunder minimum from approximately 1645 in till 1715 or 10 cycles. Then there were 2 moderate cycles and into the dalton minimum for 3 cycles leading to the major ramp up to the modern maximum . And now we are heading for colder temperatures again as we enter the modern ( eddy ) minimum.
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Old 14-05-2018, 21:52   #1090
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
The CRAAP Test is also used in junior high and senior high.

You are succeeding in not impressing anyone.
I'm not here to impress like others may be I'm here to inform that's all
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Old 15-05-2018, 05:57   #1091
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
I'm not here to impress like others may be I'm here to inform that's all
So are you going to begin soon?

I would hardly call the following items you've supplied informative, for the reasons given. Some of the more proper descriptive terms would be dis-informative, opinionated, poorly cut and unsupported, just to begin their critiques...


Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
here is the alternative to the great warming .
https://youtu.be/-Sq1pQ-gMQY
(a better version of the above)



So this 2005 History Channel pablum is what you call 'education'? This scaremongering is very loosely based on a 2003 'study', http://eesc.columbia.edu/courses/v10...s/Pentagon.pdf , for the Pentagon on security implications of climate change in general, but rapid cooling in particular, and as stated by the authors near the end of the video, has little or no chance of happening. If you want to waste your time watching it, there may be value in it if it causes one to actually look up some of the distorted oversimplifications the videos's producers use to capture the 'imaginations' of their MSM-obsessed audience.

From a strictly entertainment perspective, perhaps you'd do better with this B-movie fantasy, also available in book form under The Coming Global Superstorm, by psuedo-science writers Art Bell and Whitley Strieber.



Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Perhaps this will help your understanding


How? An unreferenced, single axis 'graph' by an uncredited, convicted 'economic forecaster' (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one...) showing...what exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
it appears that they have pulled a mann. Adjust the data to match your meme and blame it on previous scientific error.
And yes I read the article.
https://youtu.be/_wB46mgJrzI
This is from an actual astrophysicist that has no connection to government grants to prove men did it.
Since you're apparently unable to find any other support for your mini iceage/sunspot/sun caused global warming (which seems sometimes isn't happening or is 'normal' or advantageous or unimportant unless it fits what ever your current agenda is), you feel you must keep linking to this excruciatingly bad, barely 'interview' with the unfortunate Ms. Zharkova?

As for 'gubmint' grants, currently Zharkove works for Northumbria University. Leaving aside that most research scientists work by recieving grants to do their research, from a variety of sources...

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news...illion-8279239


"Northumbria University has been awarded Government funding to drive STEM excellence in the region.
The Newcastle-based university will use the 3.5million fund to create state-of-the-art teaching and research facilities at its city campus, including new specialist laboratories."


As for the 'interview' itself (made by a specifically for-profit blogger duo [moneytized youtube + Patreon), just a few 'highlights'...

1:41 Zharkova states that she is a "theoretical astrophysicist" specializing in solar plasma physics, and particle acceleration and precipitation...i.e. not a climate scientist nor even a geophysicist. (Do I begin to sense a pattern of validation-searching in your choices of 'sources'?)

3:37 Solar activity is better described by magnetic fields rather than sunspots.

5:18 'Attacks by global warmers' brought up by Jake, but never discussed

7:46 In response to a question by Mari, Zharkova states that the 97% accuracy in their enhanced version of Parkers Dipole model is relating to magnetic fields, not total solar irradiance.

11:37 Zharkova's opinion that in maybe 5 years you'll have to wear jackets in July (left out is that she's talking about a location at 55 N!)

13:37 Mari asks about 'gales' (?) and Zharkova responds by talking about how the Sun's magnetic field protects the solar system from 'visitors', by which I think she means cosmic rays.

15:00 Surprise!, Earth's 'seen it all before'...

17:00 Zharkova talks about what seems to be something she's likely justifiably proud of, her and Elena Popova's refinement of Eugene Parker's dynamo theory regarding the shape of the solar magnetic field.

19:22 Where Mari comes up with this amazing question "In regards to the many different theories of the universe, which one do you follow?" At which, understandably, Zharkova punts, since the question is unanswerable nonsense.

20:34 Mari: How bad is the coming grand solar minimum going to be?
Zharkova: Not so bad but we really don't know. Read my paper.

22:27 Mari asks about Jasper Kirkby and the effect of cosmic rays of clour formation. Zharkova responds that she only is watching from the sidelines since she's not a particle physicist, and that "we shall see". Meanwhile in the real world, most people feel that while the effect is real, the influence is so small as to be negligible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_experiment

"Although they observe that a fraction of cloud nuclei is effectively produced by ionisation due to the interaction of cosmic rays with the constituents of Earth atmosphere, this process is insufficient to attribute the present climate modifications to the fluctuations of the cosmic rays intensity modulated by changes in the solar activity and Earth magnetosphere."


24:17 Where Zharkova illustrates why some scientists, and people in general, might do better by sticking to their fields of expertise. And Jake responds anecdotally by quipping about a 'story' they did on 'elephants in longjohns...

Zharkova; "...and they had snow in April and it was cold in the desert...and they need to where a coat...in the desert for god's sake..."

Desert areas are defined by lack of precipitation, not temperature. Respectively, the largest 3 deserts in the world; Antarctica interior average temp, about -55c, Arctic -18C, Sahara over 20C.


And so on to the grand finale at 31:08...



So, if this is true

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
...I'm here to inform that's all
perhaps you (and your cohorts) should take take Jack's advice and use his test to enable you to determine the difference between facts and opinions...


P.S.

In hopes that you mean what you say about 'open minds', here's another video addressing many of your climate myths, from my old favorite, potholer54.

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Old 15-05-2018, 08:41   #1092
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Ok here goes ( way off topic but ) first this interview was done over Snapchat.

Astrophysics is the study of the sun and its effects on the solar system.
Sunspots are magnetic fields .

The idea that TSI is the end all is pure bs. There is a lot that goes into the warming or cooling of this and the rest of the planets .

Wearing a jacket in July at 55n well just for context here is London England DMS Lat: 51 30' 35.5140'' N DMS Long: 0 7' 5.1312'' W. So wearing a jacket at 55 n I'm sure would mean that people in London would also be wearing jackets in July.

Yes the earth has seen it all before that is a known fact.

Theories about the universe is nonsense ? Ok I'm sure there are many scientists that would strongly disagree with your assessment.

Grand solar minimums are not well understood by any ( heck meteorologists can't even reliability predict the weather a few days in advance) we are talking as long as a possible 20+ years.

Cosmic rays affect more than just cloud nucleation in op and of tossed it there are many variables that are not accounted for. Cosmic rays affect volcanic activity as well . Increasing the particulates in the stratosphere. ( an unknown quantities effect on cloud nucleation)
I hope this at least gives you some information to consider ( I know it won't change your opinions) .

As to your video by potholer. He was openly challenged to a public debate by an actual climatologist Dr bell and as of today ( the challenge was put forth 4 years ago ) he has declined. This says so much about his motives.
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Old 15-05-2018, 11:11   #1093
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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All the collapses you mentioned were Chinese. Chinese cherries from Ice Age Now.

You really must read the Great Warming.

The Renaissance, The Age of Discovery, The Reformation, the Scientific Revolution, the Age of Enlightenment, The Agricultural Revolution and The Industrial Revolution all occurred during the Little Ice Age. (1300-1870)
jack yes David did reference all Chinese dynasties. He is from and still lives in Taiwan so he is reporting the ones that would have affected his ancestors . Sorry it doesn't fit your genetic history ( doesn't match mine either I'm Scottish decent.)
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Old 15-05-2018, 11:56   #1094
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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As to your video by potholer. He was openly challenged to a public debate by an actual climatologist Dr bell and as of today ( the challenge was put forth 4 years ago ) he has declined. This says so much about his motives.
Link please. Which Dr Bell?

That is interesting because others refuse to debate Peter Hadfield.

https://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2012...uealing-tires/
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Old 15-05-2018, 12:09   #1095
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Link please. Which Dr Bell?

That is interesting because others refuse to debate Peter Hadfield.

https://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2012...uealing-tires/
sorry Dr Tim ball ( typo I didn't catch )
I will post a link to the challenge that was put forth later when I refind it.
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