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Old 12-05-2018, 18:07   #1036
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik de Jong View Post
There is no ice left in the northwest passage, so an ice reinforced hull is no longer a requirement
satellite seems to show the passage is still frozen
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Old 13-05-2018, 05:32   #1037
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More from the Denialist-in-Chief

Trump White House quietly cancels NASA research verifying greenhouse gas cuts | Science
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You can't manage what you don't measure. The adage is especially relevant for climate-warming greenhouse gases, which are crucial to manage—and challenging to measure. In recent years, though, satellite and aircraft instruments have begun monitoring carbon dioxide and methane remotely, and NASA's Carbon Monitoring System (CMS), a $10-million-a-year research line, has helped stitch together observations of sources and sinks into high-resolution models of the planet's flows of carbon. Now, President Donald Trump's administration has quietly killed the CMS, Science has learned.

The move jeopardizes plans to verify the national emission cuts agreed to in the Paris climate accords, says Kelly Sims Gallagher, director of Tufts University's Center for International Environment and Resource Policy in Medford, Massachusetts. "If you cannot measure emissions reductions, you cannot be confident that countries are adhering to the agreement," she says. Canceling the CMS "is a grave mistake," she adds...
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Old 13-05-2018, 11:43   #1038
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Warmer Arctic waters are resulting in species invasions.

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Above Scandinavia, on the Atlantic side of the Arctic Ocean, mackerel, cod, and other fish native to the European coast are migrating through increasingly ice-free waters, heading deeper into the Arctic Basin toward Siberia. Thousands of miles to the west, above Alaska, kittiwakes and other polar seabirds are being supplanted by southern birds following warm waters streaming north through the Bering Strait. And midway between, above Canada, sea ice-avoiding killer whales from the Atlantic are increasingly making themselves at home in a thawing Arctic.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/alien...g-arctic-ocean
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Old 13-05-2018, 11:46   #1039
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
short answer is yes, and it depends
Is the ship the hunter is on adequately ice hardend and is it escorted by an icebreaker?
If you can answer yes to my questions then my answers concerning a hunter would be yes most likely.
Which of the yachts that transited last year were ice hardened and escorted by an ice breaker?

Yes, a Hunter could make the transit - on its own bottom.
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Old 13-05-2018, 11:55   #1040
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Which of the yachts that transited last year were ice hardened and escorted by an ice breaker?

Yes, a Hunter could make the transit - on its own bottom.
we shall see
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Old 13-05-2018, 11:57   #1041
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Warmer Arctic waters are resulting in species invasions.



https://e360.yale.edu/features/alien...g-arctic-ocean
nothing new here I'm sure it has happens many times in the geological/ climatic past.
( don't think in to short of a time like you always seem to do)
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Old 13-05-2018, 12:13   #1042
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
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nothing new here I'm sure it has happens many times in the geological/ climatic past.
( don't think in to short of a time like you always seem to do)
I'm sure you're right, but scientists have no way of knowing.

From the same link:

"Researchers point out that data from the remote Arctic Ocean are sparse and long-term observations are lacking, making it hard to pinpoint exact times and rates of change in polar marine ecosystems. The satellite record is only 39 years old and ship-based surveys have been infrequent, so scientists canít always say for certain how much a population is increasing or extending its range."

Sea life is adapting to the warmer temps, and would likewise do the same in cooler temps. Just like they've always done and how humans will do too.
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Old 13-05-2018, 12:31   #1043
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Re: More from the Denialist-in-Chief

Another perfect example of why you may want to reconsider relying on eco-journalists of all the same stripe for your information. But I understand how hard it must be to resist an opportunity for a dig at the current administration.

NASA has announced that the CMS program will soon be replaced with "a new ecosystem carbon-monitoring instrument, called GEDI, [that] is set to launch to the International Space Station later this year." According to NASA, the "winding down of this specific research program does not curb NASA's ability or commitment to monitoring carbon and its effects on our changing planet."

https://phys.org/news/2018-05-white-...reenhouse.html

Besides, I hear Ivanka's hip to the whole MMGW schtig. Probably helps sales of her clothing line.
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Old 13-05-2018, 12:56   #1044
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Re: More from the Denialist-in-Chief

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Another perfect example of why you may want to reconsider relying on eco-journalists of all the same stripe for your information. But I understand how hard it must be to resist an opportunity for a dig at the current administration.

NASA has announced that the CMS program will soon be replaced with "a new ecosystem carbon-monitoring instrument, called GEDI, [that] is set to launch to the International Space Station later this year." According to NASA, the "winding down of this specific research program does not curb NASA's ability or commitment to monitoring carbon and its effects on our changing planet."

https://phys.org/news/2018-05-white-...reenhouse.html

Besides, I hear Ivanka's hip to the whole MMGW schtig. Probably helps sales of her clothing line.
GEDI is operational so it just makes sense to close down the program that it replaced.
https://science.nasa.gov/missions/gedi
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Old 13-05-2018, 15:21   #1045
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
( don't think in to short of a time like you always seem to do)
Says th guy who who claims that two-years is a trend.
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Old 13-05-2018, 15:36   #1046
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Says th guy who who claims that two-years is a trend.
yes when it matches up to the long term trend of the last 150 years. Warming and cooling . Its not man caused co2 . Man is barely a flea on the back of the dog ( the earth)
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Old 13-05-2018, 16:27   #1047
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Just like they've always done and how humans will do too.
While the MWP may have benefited some parts of Europe, it was catastrophic for other parts of the Northern Hemisphere: widespread drought, catastrophic rainfall, toppled dynasties, ruined civilizations, Mongol invasions ...

I suggest you read the Great Warming by Brian Fagan.

In previous sea level rises, people simply packed up their tents and moved. Since then national borders have been established, people live in concrete structures and a much larger population means nowhere to migrate.

Just exactly what adaptations do you foresee?

Most of the climate changes will affect those who took no part in causing the problem.

Climate change will affect developing countries more than rich ones
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Old 13-05-2018, 16:55   #1048
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

I can see there is some real angst in this thread. Reading this should help..

Dealing with Climate Change Distress

Quote:
The reality of climate change is actually
very frightening. We are already in times of
dangerous climate change, with worse forecast
if we continue with business as usual, pouring
excess greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.
This tip sheet is on how to deal with the distress
and stress of not just knowing that climate change
is a threat, but also
feeling
that it is a threat.
The feeling part is very important. Knowing about
climate change is not enough for most people to
take action. There are many, many ways in which
people can ignore climate change or choose to do
nothing about it. But when we feel the threat, then
we are more likely to be motivated to take action.
But itís also then, of course, that we feel the most
distress and worry.
.....
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Old 13-05-2018, 17:04   #1049
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Re: More from the Denialist-in-Chief

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Another perfect example of why you may want to reconsider relying on eco-journalists of all the same stripe for your information. But I understand how hard it must be to resist an opportunity for a dig at the current administration.

NASA has announced that the CMS program will soon be replaced with "a new ecosystem carbon-monitoring instrument, called GEDI, [that] is set to launch to the International Space Station later this year." According to NASA, the "winding down of this specific research program does not curb NASA's ability or commitment to monitoring carbon and its effects on our changing planet."

https://phys.org/news/2018-05-white-...reenhouse.html
I'm not sure I'd call Science an eco-journal. Many people consider it to be one of the foremost science journals. So I am surprised that they didn't mention GEDI.

The Science article did mention a program called OCO-3, which is to be sent to the Space Station later this year. Maybe OCO-3 is a component of GEDI?

Someone interviewed said that "CMS would help knit all these observations together." So perhaps there is some overlap between CMS and GEDI, but that they also complement each other.

Either way, it's pretty clear that Trump, and many in his administration, take a dim view to all sorts of science, not just Climate Change science. To quote Trump, "Sad."
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Old 13-05-2018, 17:25   #1050
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Re: More from the Denialist-in-Chief

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Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
I'm not sure I'd call Science an eco-journal. Many people consider it to be one of the foremost science journals. So I am surprised that they didn't mention GEDI.

The Science article did mention a program called OCO-3, which is to be sent to the Space Station later this year. Maybe OCO-3 is a component of GEDI?

Someone interviewed said that "CMS would help knit all these observations together." So perhaps there is some overlap between CMS and GEDI, but that they also complement each other.

Either way, it's pretty clear that Trump, and many in his administration, take a dim view to all sorts of science, not just Climate Change science. To quote Trump, "Sad."
here was 10 seconds on Google
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/s...ents/2047.html
Oco3 is a stand alone system
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