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Old 10-05-2018, 19:41   #991
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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I am sure you are correct, but the cash-for-clunkers program has nothing to do with your taking personal responsibility for your carbon emissions. But this seems to follow from those who are ringing alarm bells the loudest. I guess it's a "do as I say and not as I do" sort of mentality.
Because my cars run well and get high mileage (which implies their CO2 emissions are low), therefore I indeed "do as I say, as well as I do."

When I purchase a car (always used) I first search the Consumer's Reports automobile reviews to find a model and year which gets good mileage, has low maintenance costs, and is in my price range (low). After buying I keep the vehicle in good repair, drive conservatively, and keep the car as long as I can.

We keep thinking about getting an electric car. As a used car buyer I'm more apt to be looking at buying the older, 1st gen cars. The distance they can drive is much less than the current crop of BEVs. It's not clear how well the older batteries hold up in the colder weather I have to deal with, and I would be the one to have to pay for a replacement battery -- likely at great expense. No thanks. I'll let those with more money than I iron out those bugs. In the mean time I'll purchase the gas-powered cars that are the least polluting.

BTW, a hybrid gas/electric shows it greatest advantage in stop-and-go driving. When it is used for long-distance driving it has very little advantage over a fuel-efficient gas car. Since I live in a rural area little of my driving is stop-and-go, so hybrids don't appear to be a good fit for me.
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In your case, you post about the environmental virtues (and affordability) of electric cars but are unwilling to take that step without a financial incentive from your fellow taxpayers.
I am in favor of the government helping to support nascent technologies that may help us solve our climate problems.
Quote:
But somehow it's morally acceptable to demand carbon taxes from people poorer than you who's use of fossil fuels is much more of a necessity rather than a luxury. I understand and appreciate your concerns over the environment, but isn't your approach rather selfish and morally suspect?

Here's some further insight into this rather odd if not hypocritical phenomenon (from a psych journal if it makes you feel better).

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...r-study-finds/
I believe I specifically stated that part of the revenue derived from carbon taxation should go towards helping those people least able to absorb the burden of the taxes. From post 839:
Quote:
In my estimation, the best, fastest, easiest-to-implement, most effective governmental policy change that could be made is to enact a yearly-increasing carbon tax, with the revenue generated used to assisted the most needy and vulnerable, and to fund research into possible solutions.
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Old 10-05-2018, 20:03   #992
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Zeke Hausfather explains the needs for adjustments.
And Spencer & Christy criticize them. So what do we do, pick a scientist who wears nicer ties, or just go with the one who's beliefs are most consistent with our own?
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Old 10-05-2018, 20:16   #993
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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And Spencer & Christy criticize them. So what do we do, pick a scientist who wears nicer ties, or just go with the one who's beliefs are most consistent with our own?
Spencer and Christy adjust their satellite data.

I like some of what Spencer does. However; I think his Dominionist, Creationist, Evangelical Christian beliefs get in the way of his science.

Historically Spencer and Christy have had way too many errors in their data.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ture-estimates

Christy's "congressional graphs" has been thoroughly debunked. They have never been submitted for publication.

Comparing models to the satellite datasets « RealClimate
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Old 11-05-2018, 00:57   #994
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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My source



Your source 3.2 mm per year.

Yours is shows a greater change.
That's because my link is the more accurate as indicated by the fact it is "accurate" to 1 decimal point. But I do wonder how sea level rise can be calculated to an accuracy of 0.1 mm when the specified error is +/-4 mm. If I had a voltmeter that displayed a Voltage to 0.1 Volt but it's spec sheet said it was accurate to within +/- 4 Volts, I'd throw it in the bin. You're a wizard. Why do "they" quote this accuracy with such a high range of error? What's the accuracy of a sea level measuring satellite anyway? Is there just one or do "they" use a whole bunch of them?

Anyway, this is analysing the radiator water composition in an effort to see why the car is running hot. The reality is there is no significant accelerated sea level rise.
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Old 11-05-2018, 01:57   #995
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

This explains a lot......

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-018-0157-2

Quote:
Abstract
Studies showing that scepticism about anthropogenic climate change is shaped, in part, by conspiratorial and conservative ideologies are based on data primarily collected in the United States. Thus, it may be that the ideological nature of climate change beliefs reflects something distinctive about the United States rather than being an international phenomenon. Here we find that positive correlations between climate scepticism and indices of ideology were stronger and more consistent in the United States than in the other 24 nations tested. This suggests that there is a political culture in the United States that offers particularly strong encouragement for citizens to appraise climate science through the lens of their worldviews. Furthermore, the weak relationships between ideology and climate scepticism in the majority of nations suggest that there is little inherent to conspiratorial ideation or conservative ideologies that predisposes people to reject climate science, a finding that has encouraging implications for climate mitigation efforts globally.
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Old 11-05-2018, 03:27   #996
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Thinning Arctic Sea Ice Prompts Algae Bloom Study | Climate Central

Micro-algae may now be able to grow under the ice across almost 30 percent of the Arctic Ocean at the peak of the brief summer in July, up from about 5 percent 30 years ago. Blooms may become even more widespread.

The average thickness of Arctic sea ice fell to 1.89 meters (6.2 ft) in 2008 from 3.64 meters in 1980, according to another study. Sub-ice algae seem to become dormant in winter, when the sun disappears for months, and are revived in spring.

The first massive under-ice bloom of algae was seen in 2011 in the Chukchi Sea north of the Bering Strait separating Alaska and Russia, a region until then thought too dark for photosynthesis. It is unclear how the growth might have knock-on effects on the Arctic food chain, perhaps drawing more fish northwards.
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:04   #997
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Because my cars run well and get high mileage (which implies their CO2 emissions are low), therefore I indeed "do as I say, as well as I do."

It sounds more like you're doing nothing, which is right in line with the research linked above which found that "the 'highly concerned' group was the least likely to take individual action, but they were the most insistent on government action." Put another way, "belief in climate change," the researchers explained, "predicted support for government policies, but did not generally translate to individual-level, self-reported pro-environmental behavior."

At best, you are making your car buying decisions for completely understandable economic reasons, not unlike why Newhaul & Third Day, to cite but two examples, are (in part) making their's.


When I purchase a car (always used) I first search the Consumer's Reports automobile reviews to find a model and year which gets good mileage, has low maintenance costs, and is in my price range (low). After buying I keep the vehicle in good repair, drive conservatively, and keep the car as long as I can.

We keep thinking about getting an electric car. As a used car buyer I'm more apt to be looking at buying the older, 1st gen cars. The distance they can drive is much less than the current crop of BEVs. It's not clear how well the older batteries hold up in the colder weather I have to deal with, and I would be the one to have to pay for a replacement battery -- likely at great expense. No thanks. I'll let those with more money than I iron out those bugs. In the mean time I'll purchase the gas-powered cars that are the least polluting.

BTW, a hybrid gas/electric shows it greatest advantage in stop-and-go driving. When it is used for long-distance driving it has very little advantage over a fuel-efficient gas car. Since I live in a rural area little of my driving is stop-and-go, so hybrids don't appear to be a good fit for me.

So in other words, electric/hybrid automotive technologies haven't achieved parity with gasoline for many consumers like yourself, yet you have no problem urging others to buy them.

I am in favor of the government helping to support nascent technologies that may help us solve our climate problems.

It's a great line but there's those pesky unintended consequences.

I believe I specifically stated that part of the revenue derived from carbon taxation should go towards helping those people least able to absorb the burden of the taxes. From post 839:
This would mean that people who qualify get back the oft-discussed rebate check from the govt. in the same amount they paid in add'l taxes (levied on the provider and passed along to the consumer), and that the refund happens fairly quickly. If so, then that eliminates any incentive such people have for using less fuel due to the imposition of the tax in the first place. Just a couple of the problems with a carbon tax that need to be better thought through, imho.
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:14   #998
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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And Spencer & Christy criticize them. So what do we do, pick a scientist who wears nicer ties, or just go with the one who's beliefs are most consistent with our own?
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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Spencer and Christy adjust their satellite data.

I like some of what Spencer does. However; I think his Dominionist, Creationist, Evangelical Christian beliefs get in the way of his science.

Historically Spencer and Christy have had way too many errors in their data.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ture-estimates

Christy's "congressional graphs" has been thoroughly debunked. They have never been submitted for publication.

Comparing models to the satellite datasets « RealClimate
I think the bolded part answers my question, namely that you reject much of Spencer's science on account of his personal religious faith. You've never presented any evidence in support of your frequent indictment that those beliefs "get in the way of his science," so here's another chance. In the absence of such evidence, I can only assume you are reaching scientific conclusions in a markedly unscientific and unprofessional way.
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:07   #999
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
Thinning Arctic Sea Ice Prompts Algae Bloom Study | Climate Central

Micro-algae may now be able to grow under the ice across almost 30 percent of the Arctic Ocean at the peak of the brief summer in July, up from about 5 percent 30 years ago. Blooms may become even more widespread.

The average thickness of Arctic sea ice fell to 1.89 meters (6.2 ft) in 2008 from 3.64 meters in 1980, according to another study. Sub-ice algae seem to become dormant in winter, when the sun disappears for months, and are revived in spring.

The first massive under-ice bloom of algae was seen in 2011 in the Chukchi Sea north of the Bering Strait separating Alaska and Russia, a region until then thought too dark for photosynthesis. It is unclear how the growth might have knock-on effects on the Arctic food chain, perhaps drawing more fish northwards.
Well, that certainly was some well spent research dollars. Somewhat reminiscent of a Beatles song....

"I read the news today, oh boy
Four thousand holes in Blackburn, Lancashire
And though the holes were rather small
They had to count them all
Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall"
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:37   #1000
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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I think the bolded part answers my question, namely that you reject much of Spencer's science on account of his personal religious faith. You've never presented any evidence in support of your frequent indictment that those beliefs "get in the way of his science," so here's another chance. In the absence of such evidence, I can only assume you are reaching scientific conclusions in a markedly unscientific and unprofessional way.
Spencer is active with the Cornwall Alliance and a signatory to their Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming, which repeatedly uses the term "deny".

https://cornwallalliance.org/landmar...bal-warming-2/

BTW - there are Evangelical Christian climate scientists such as Katherine Hayhoe who affirm AGW. Katharine Hayhoe | Climate Scientist

Hayhoe series, Global Weirding, is well worth watching. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi6...gRVKi3AzidF4ow
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:45   #1001
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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That's because my link is the more accurate as indicated by the fact it is "accurate" to 1 decimal point. But I do wonder how sea level rise can be calculated to an accuracy of 0.1 mm when the specified error is +/-4 mm. If I had a voltmeter that displayed a Voltage to 0.1 Volt but it's spec sheet said it was accurate to within +/- 4 Volts, I'd throw it in the bin. You're a wizard. Why do "they" quote this accuracy with such a high range of error? What's the accuracy of a sea level measuring satellite anyway? Is there just one or do "they" use a whole bunch of them?

Anyway, this is analysing the radiator water composition in an effort to see why the car is running hot. The reality is there is no significant accelerated sea level rise.
A longer view



Meanwhile

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/...08-p4ze3z.html
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Old 11-05-2018, 10:22   #1002
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Spencer is active with the Cornwall Alliance and a signatory to their Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming, which repeatedly uses the term "deny".

https://cornwallalliance.org/landmar...bal-warming-2/

BTW - there are Evangelical Christian climate scientists such as Katherine Hayhoe who affirm AGW. Katharine Hayhoe | Climate Scientist

Hayhoe series, Global Weirding, is well worth watching. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi6...gRVKi3AzidF4ow
And all posted by you many times before. So I'll give you the same answer. Unless there is a causal connection you can identify between Spencer's religious beliefs and his professional objectivity, you are engaging in religious bigotry. The fact that there are other scientists who may share Spencer's religious inclinations but happen to agree with your position on AGW does nothing to dispel your unfounded bias and animus. Your other references to critiques of Spencer's work simply look like honest scientific debate & disagreement, and I couldn't find any accusations of religious-based bias in those critiques.

Despite your extensive knowledge base, you've demonstrated time & again that you judge scientific opinion based on whether it comports with your own position as opposed to its objective merit. Kindly stick to the science as you like to say, and refrain from character assassination of individual scientists who's opinions you happen not to share.
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Old 11-05-2018, 10:29   #1003
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Seawater expands as temperatures warm. The earth has been warming since the LIA according to some. Land masses rise and sink. The technology for measuring sea level rise & fall is not well developed. Yet we are inundated with doomsday posts which don't even attempt to explain cause & effect.

I'm still waiting for an explanation why avg. temps have risen 0.21C over 30 years but MMGW is the cause of a recent 32 spike in Arctic temps on account of polar amplification.

The line between legitimate science and mere propaganda seems to be blurring.
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Old 11-05-2018, 12:20   #1004
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Despite your extensive knowledge base, you've demonstrated time & again that you judge scientific opinion based on whether it comports with your own position as opposed to its objective merit. Kindly stick to the science as you like to say, and refrain from character assassination of individual scientists who's opinions you happen not to share.
Perhaps you could present some science and stop with the personal attacks on me.

When you are prepared to that we can engage in an adult conversation.
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Old 11-05-2018, 12:25   #1005
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Seawater expands as temperatures warm. The earth has been warming since the LIA according to some. Land masses rise and sink. The technology for measuring sea level rise & fall is not well developed. Yet we are inundated with doomsday posts which don't even attempt to explain cause & effect.
I know - hence the adjustments to the non-satellite data.




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I'm still waiting for an explanation why avg. temps have risen 0.21C over 30 years but MMGW is the cause of a recent 32 spike in Arctic temps on account of polar amplification.
Polar amplification explained - Polar Amplification « RealClimate

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The line between legitimate science and mere propaganda seems to be blurring.
Only to those dismissive of climate science.
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