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Old 10-05-2018, 07:58   #931
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
Developing electric vehicles is probably a good step in the right direction. Young technologies often don't reach their full potential for a while. So we have to push through the learning curve to tell if reality can match up to expectation.

Initially, wind and solar power were only financially viable with government subsidies. Now, in many places, they are cheaper than building new conventional power plants -- not even considering the environmental benefits of reduced CO2 pollution.

As far as I can tell, burning ethanol doesn't, and never will, made sense.
agreed ethanol just reduces gasoline we energy and adds about 2 pounds of co2 to the emissions of a gallon of gasoline.
As to electric vehicles they do much more damage to the environment than conventional cars ( cradle to grave)
but that's not what the people that drive them want to hear.
And what about the environmental wannabes of solar and or wind . Same thing people don't want to hear the truth there either.
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:17   #932
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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that graph you posted is pure hookum jack mine is real. Also 2016 was one of the strongest El Nino events on record but you knew that and just didn't say it.
The graph points to 2016 as a strong El Nino.
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:20   #933
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
agreed ethanol just reduces gasoline we energy and adds about 2 pounds of co2 to the emissions of a gallon of gasoline.
As to electric vehicles they do much more damage to the environment than conventional cars ( cradle to grave)
but that's not what the people that drive them want to hear.
And what about the environmental wannabes of solar and or wind . Same thing people don't want to hear the truth there either.
Isn't it interesting to see how good Marketing and Social Group Think can be used to make people believe something that just scientifically isn't true. There are really people out there that believe they are better people who love their Children and the Planet more because they drive an electric car. When in fact they were manipulated by the Industrial Marketing Complex.

What happens when this same IMC is used to tell the populace that once ethnicity of people or one type of though is dangerous? We can already see that being utilized today and it's Dangerous.
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:22   #934
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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there is no such thing as settled science either
(The theory of gravity is still a theory)
There is no such think as a consensus in science either ( opinions are not science)
Consensus is not opinion. You really need to understand the role of consensus in scientific paradigms. Thomas Kuhn discuss that role. Here is the Cliff Notes version. Notice the number times the term "consensus" appears.

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In the postscript to the second edition of The Structure of Scientific Revolutions Kuhn says of paradigms in this sense that they are “the most novel and least understood aspect of this book” (1962/1970a, 187). The claim that the consensus of a disciplinary matrix is primarily agreement on paradigms-as-exemplars is intended to explain the nature of normal science and the process of crisis, revolution, and renewal of normal science. It also explains the birth of a mature science. Kuhn describes an immature science, in what he sometimes calls its ‘pre-paradigm’ period, as lacking consensus. Competing schools of thought possess differing procedures, theories, even metaphysical presuppositions. Consequently there is little opportunity for collective progress. Even localized progress by a particular school is made difficult, since much intellectual energy is put into arguing over the fundamentals with other schools instead of developing a research tradition. However, progress is not impossible, and one school may make a breakthrough whereby the shared problems of the competing schools are solved in a particularly impressive fashion. This success draws away adherents from the other schools, and a widespread consensus is formed around the new puzzle-solutions.

This widespread consensus now permits agreement on fundamentals. For a problem-solution will embody particular theories, procedures and instrumentation, scientific language, metaphysics, and so forth. Consensus on the puzzle-solution will thus bring consensus on these other aspects of a disciplinary matrix also. The successful puzzle-solution, now a paradigm puzzle-solution, will not solve all problems. Indeed, it will probably raise new puzzles. For example, the theories it employs may involve a constant whose value is not known with precision; the paradigm puzzle-solution may employ approximations that could be improved; it may suggest other puzzles of the same kind; it may suggest new areas for investigation. Generating new puzzles is one thing that the paradigm puzzle-solution does; helping solve them is another. In the most favourable scenario, the new puzzles raised by the paradigm puzzle-solution can be addressed and answered using precisely the techniques that the paradigm puzzle-solution employs. And since the paradigm puzzle-solution is accepted as a great achievement, these very similar puzzle-solutions will be accepted as successful solutions also. This is why Kuhn uses the terms ‘exemplar’ and ‘paradigm’. For the novel puzzle-solution which crystallizes consensus is regarded and used as a model of exemplary science. In the research tradition it inaugurates, a paradigm-as-exemplar fulfils three functions: (i) it suggests new puzzles; (ii) it suggests approaches to solving those puzzles; (iii) it is the standard by which the quality of a proposed puzzle-solution can be measured (1962/1970a, 38–9). In each case it is similarity to the exemplar that is the scientists’ guide.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thomas-kuhn/#3
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:27   #935
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
is that they often don't seem schooled up enough in opposing scientific theories, .
Is there another smoking gun to explain the rapid recent spike in the planet heat content?

Name one?
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:31   #936
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Is there another smoking gun to explain the rapid recent spike in the planet heat content?

Name one?
are you referring to the faked and statistically adjusted data?
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:32   #937
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Consensus is not opinion. You really need to understand the role of consensus in scientific paradigms.
and Consensus is NOT SCIENCE.
but you knew that....
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:33   #938
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Newhaul - some science for you

Explainer: Why the sun is not responsible for recent climate change
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:45   #939
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
jack I have already debunked your link a couple times in the past when you posted it I will not engage in the ( obviously )useless act debunking of it again .
The tsi is a minor part of the whole perhaps you should revisit some o my astrophysics links again
.
Here is one to get you started ( I've posted this interview already in this thread) but here it is again Dr zharkova.
https://youtu.be/_wB46mgJrzI
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:27   #940
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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jack I have already debunked your link a couple times in the past when you posted it I will not engage in the ( obviously )useless act debunking of it again .
The tsi is a minor part of the whole perhaps you should revisit some o my astrophysics links again
.
Here is one to get you started ( I've posted this interview already in this thread) but here it is again Dr zharkova.
https://youtu.be/_wB46mgJrzI
You have debunked nothing

Meanwhile

The ‘Mini Ice Age’ Hoopla Is A Giant Failure Of Science Communication
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:38   #941
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Newhaul - Your Cult of Ra has no standing:

1) The Maunder Minimum did not cause or exacerbate the Little Ice Age. The MM occurred AFTER the LIA started.

2) While solar actvity has been declining temperatures have been increasing.

3) Solar irradiance varies 0.15% which is insufficient to be a factor in climate change.

4) Ice ages are sparked by Milankovitch cycles which change the earth's orientation to the sun; the sun's intensity does not change. Just as a fire does not change in intensity as you get closer, even though you feel warmer.

5) The CLOUD experiment at CERN has shown the GCRs are not a significant factor in cloud formation or climate change.

6) The BEST study, funded by the Koch Family Foundation and led by a self-proclaimed skeptic, has concluded:

Quote:
Many of the changes in land-surface temperature can be explained by a combination of volcanoes and a proxy for human greenhouse gas emissions. Solar variation does not seem to impact the temperature trend.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:47   #942
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Is there another smoking gun to explain the rapid recent spike in the planet heat content?

Name one?
Another good example of the impact of one-sided media saturation. A rapid recent spike based on which data, land/sea based or satellite? And a spike compared to what time frame? It doesn't seem to be a question of a "smoking gun," but rather how much AGW is influencing temps as compared to natural forces. There are scientists who theorize that we should be in a cooling phase so any long-term warming trend must be attributable to AGW. There are others who theorize that we are still in the warming trend that started after the so-called LIA, so we must look harder to determine how much warming is attributable to each. And then there's the amplifying effect in the Arctic as Jack has mentioned many times, but that applies regardless of the source of the warming.

Climate scientists are apparently still working on methodologies to more accurately determine historical temps in the Arctic and elsewhere to have more scientifically sound bases of comparison. Correct me if I'm wrong, and notwithstanding all the media hype, but it doesn't seem like recent spikes up or down have much bearing on the big picture issues.
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:03   #943
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Newhaul - Your Cult of Ra has no standing:

1) The Maunder Minimum did not cause or exacerbate the Little Ice Age. The MM AFTER the LIA started.

2) While solar actvity has been declining temperatures have been increasing.

3) Solar irradiance varies 0.15% which is insufficient to be a factor in climate change.

4) Ice ages are sparked by Milankovitch cycles which change the earth's orientation to the sun; the sun intensity does not change. Just as a fire does not change in intensity as you get closer, even though you feel warmer.

5) The CLOUD experiment at CERN has shown the GCRs are not a significant factor in cliud formation or climate change.

6) The BEST study, funded by the Koch Family Foundation and led by a self-proclaimed skeptic, has concluded:



your science issue is the lack OV interdisciplinary communication.
And your temperature chart is pure bs
Back to the UAH chart . And the current set for the tropics . And last is the current solar cycle and sunspots to wrap it all up.
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:31   #944
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Just to dispel the its just regional
Here is Australia
https://www.9news.com.au/national/20...eastern-states
temp anomaly saturday
https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/anal...18051006&fh=48
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:39   #945
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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your science issue is the lack OV interdisciplinary communication.
And your temperature chart is pure bs
Back to the UAH chart . And the current set for the tropics . And last is the current solar cycle and sunspots to wrap it all up.
Yep - that wraps it up.

Tropics - cherry picked.

Solar activity - declining

Global temperatures - long term increase.
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