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Old 07-05-2018, 17:55   #826
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Ahem, old mate should consider other solutions...



It's proven technology, after all. We didn't have global warming when these things were the premium mode of long distance transport.
There might be some debate about how "proven" the technology was. IIRC, the PEKING was one of the last commercial tall ships to round Cape Horn. This movie footage was shot by one of the sailors. They were pounded by a terrific storm, during which time a couple of the sailors were washed overboard.

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Old 07-05-2018, 19:04   #827
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Last post cut some of the arctic over Greenland and I didn't want to be accused of hiding data.

yes climate reanalizer always is well above all the rest of the models.
Even with that in mind -10℃ or colder actual is still well below the freezing point.
Many areas are well below -30℃ .
Why does every MMGW believer only post the anomalous readings and not the actual for comparison.
Lets see if it was normal it would be-20℃ instead of -10℃ . Still well below any possible melting of anything in the arctic
This has already been explained to you. If you choose either not to remember or not to believe it, it doesn't change the fact that higher temperatures have an adverse effect on the remaining sea ice.

'Hiding' the data or not, you've left out the most important part, without which your (irrelevant to anyone who even vaguely understands the problem) map is only a pretty picture. Can you tell what it is?







Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul
This is really gonna cause a meltdown of MMGWC .
It appears us skeptics are better for the environment than the greenies.
https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news...obal-warming-/
Listed as 'most popular' alongside the 'skeptrics are better that believers article'

Climate skeptics more eco-friendly than global-warming alarmists: study
Lowest-rated show on Fox News outperforms highest-rated show on CNN
'Rescission' package: Donald Trump to demand Congress cut $15 billion in spending
Donald Trump winning over Democrats, CNN poll finds
John Kerry should be jailed
Eric Schneiderman, New York AG, accused of sexual abuse by four women
Broward school district admits Nikolas Cruz was referred to PROMISE program in 'stunning' reversal
Russia investigation isn't really about Trump, but giving cover to Obama and Hillary
Gonzaga University warns 'non-Mexican individuals' against 'cultural appropriation' on Cinco de Mayo
Donald Trump slams John Kerry over 'possibly illegal' private talks with Iran


Yep, that's a non biased source...


Meanwhile, the abstract from the paper, which is all that is available for free




"We conducted a one-year longitudinal study in which 600 American adults regularly reported their climate change beliefs, pro-environmental behavior, and other climate-change related measures. Using latent class analyses, we uncovered three clusters of Americans with distinct climate belief trajectories: (1) the “Skeptical,” who believed least in climate change; (2) the “Cautiously Worried,” who had moderate beliefs in climate change; and (3) the “Highly Concerned,” who had the strongest beliefs and concern about climate change. Cluster membership predicted different outcomes: the “Highly Concerned” were most supportive of government climate policies, but least likely to report individual-level actions, whereas the “Skeptical” opposed policy solutions but were most likely to report engaging in individual-level pro-environmental behaviors. Implications for theory and practice are discussed."




pretty much shows what could be predicted by anyone who is familiar with the three 'clusters'; people who claim to distrust the government (unless they want it to do something for them), the 'Skeptics', opposed 'policy solutions' (which, by the way are the only solutions), whereas the 'Highly Concerned', for whatever reason, whether they knew it or not, supported the only viable the only course that can possibly solve it, which is a combination of policy and economic changes. I wonder what the "Highly Concerned" do?


Rather than talk of the deniers favorite scapegoat's peccadilloes, why not bring up their favorite's, the Trumpster's. Just because he's a denier doesn't make him any less responsible for his actions...


Seriously though, there's a talk here, from about 33:00 to 42:00 about the real sources of carbon emissions, and the some of the only real solutions. (but both talks are worth listening to in full) Some highlights


50% of global carbon emissions come from 10% of the global population.


If just the top 10% emitters reduced their footprint to match that of an average EU citizen, global emissions would be reduced by 33%...


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Old 07-05-2018, 19:31   #828
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
This has already been explained to you. If you choose either not to remember or not to believe it, it doesn't change the fact that higher temperatures have an adverse effect on the remaining sea ice.

'Hiding' the data or not, you've left out the most important part, without which your (irrelevant to anyone who even vaguely understands the problem) map is only a pretty picture. Can you tell what it is?







Listed as 'most popular' alongside the 'skeptrics are better that believers article'

Climate skeptics more eco-friendly than global-warming alarmists: study
Lowest-rated show on Fox News outperforms highest-rated show on CNN
'Rescission' package: Donald Trump to demand Congress cut $15 billion in spending
Donald Trump winning over Democrats, CNN poll finds
John Kerry should be jailed
Eric Schneiderman, New York AG, accused of sexual abuse by four women
Broward school district admits Nikolas Cruz was referred to PROMISE program in 'stunning' reversal
Russia investigation isn't really about Trump, but giving cover to Obama and Hillary
Gonzaga University warns 'non-Mexican individuals' against 'cultural appropriation' on Cinco de Mayo
Donald Trump slams John Kerry over 'possibly illegal' private talks with Iran


Yep, that's a non biased source...


Meanwhile, the abstract from the paper, which is all that is available for free




"We conducted a one-year longitudinal study in which 600 American adults regularly reported their climate change beliefs, pro-environmental behavior, and other climate-change related measures. Using latent class analyses, we uncovered three clusters of Americans with distinct climate belief trajectories: (1) the “Skeptical,” who believed least in climate change; (2) the “Cautiously Worried,” who had moderate beliefs in climate change; and (3) the “Highly Concerned,” who had the strongest beliefs and concern about climate change. Cluster membership predicted different outcomes: the “Highly Concerned” were most supportive of government climate policies, but least likely to report individual-level actions, whereas the “Skeptical” opposed policy solutions but were most likely to report engaging in individual-level pro-environmental behaviors. Implications for theory and practice are discussed."




pretty much shows what could be predicted by anyone who is familiar with the three 'clusters'; people who claim to distrust the government (unless they want it to do something for them), the 'Skeptics', opposed 'policy solutions' (which, by the way are the only solutions), whereas the 'Highly Concerned', for whatever reason, whether they knew it or not, supported the only viable the only course that can possibly solve it, which is a combination of policy and economic changes. I wonder what the "Highly Concerned" do?


Rather than talk of the deniers favorite scapegoat's peccadilloes, why not bring up their favorite's, the Trumpster's. Just because he's a denier doesn't make him any less responsible for his actions...


Seriously though, there's a talk here, from about 33:00 to 42:00 about the real sources of carbon emissions, and the some of the only real solutions. (but both talks are worth listening to in full) Some highlights


50% of global carbon emissions come from 10% of the global population.


If just the top 10% emitters reduced their footprint to match that of an average EU citizen, global emissions would be reduced by 33%...


so what are you doing to reduce your personal carbon footprint ?
And I'm not even going to waste my time ripping your opinion laden post apart.
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Old 07-05-2018, 21:19   #829
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
jack do you know how they actually get the deviations for their charts?
A formula for standard deviation

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Old 07-05-2018, 21:28   #830
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

So, how many of those first-worlders believe man is changing the world's climate for worse have stopped driving automobiles or using gas and electricity in their homes? I mean, really believe. And what about the citizens in the rest of the world? Sorry, no wood fires for them. Don't they all use solar stoves for heat and cooking and take pales to gather water from the well/creek/river?
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Old 07-05-2018, 21:36   #831
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

For your Viewing Pleasure....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=8BQpciw8suk
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Old 07-05-2018, 21:37   #832
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
So, how many of those first-worlders believe man is changing the world's climate for worse have stopped driving automobiles or using gas and electricity in their homes? I mean, really believe. And what about the citizens in the rest of the world? Sorry, no wood fires for them. Don't they all use solar stoves for heat and cooking and take pales to gather water from the well/creek/river?
Bingo....and if they REALLY Believed the Crisis Fear Mongering they would make the changes themselves...but they don't why? Because even they know it's a scam.
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Old 07-05-2018, 22:03   #833
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
So, how many of those first-worlders believe man is changing the world's climate for worse have stopped driving automobiles or using gas and electricity in their homes? I mean, really believe. And what about the citizens in the rest of the world? Sorry, no wood fires for them. Don't they all use solar stoves for heat and cooking and take pales to gather water from the well/creek/river?
Mark I guarantee my carbon footprint is one of the smallest on this forum.
But no I don't believe in all of the co2 bs and hype. I do it purely because I'm a cheap sob.
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Old 07-05-2018, 22:06   #834
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Now here is the truth about it all
https://youtu.be/NjlC02NsIt0
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Old 07-05-2018, 22:14   #835
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Mark I guarantee my carbon footprint is one of the smallest on this forum.
But no I don't believe in all of the co2 bs and hype. I do it purely because I'm a cheap sob.
Hey....I always love telling the MMGW Cultists that my Carbon Footprint is smaller than theirs. I'm cheap....but not a slob.
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Old 07-05-2018, 22:21   #836
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Hey....I always love telling the MMGW Cultists that my Carbon Footprint is smaller than theirs. I'm cheap....but not a slob.
SOB. not slob
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Old 07-05-2018, 22:46   #837
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
So, how many of those first-worlders believe man is changing the world's climate for worse have stopped driving automobiles or using gas and electricity in their homes? I mean, really believe. And what about the citizens in the rest of the world? Sorry, no wood fires for them. Don't they all use solar stoves for heat and cooking and take pales to gather water from the well/creek/river?
Perhaps you should watch the video 9 posts above before asking such fatuous questions.

The (economically) poorer people of the world (in y'all's gilded cages you're probably unaware that they have a (relatively) new designation, the 'Global South') are more advanced in many areas regarding preparing for the increasingly severe environmental changes that are coming (for many, that are already here), as a result of their 'richer' fellow Earth-inhabitants actions, than those consumption-obsessed and corporate-market-driven fellows are.

And for good reason...living close to the land, with little or no 'safety net', they're very aware of the environmental changes around them, and what they have to do to cope with them. Just because they cook with fire and fetch water doesn't mean they're stupid or unable to make plans...and they should be expected to remember very well what and who the source of these environmental changes was and is...

Unfortunately those people will not be around to pay for their shortsightedness and transgressions. Makes one wish there actually was a 'justice destination' for such 'people'.
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Old 07-05-2018, 22:57   #838
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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so what are you doing to reduce your personal carbon footprint ?
And I'm not even going to waste my time ripping your opinion laden post apart.
What on earth does my (or yours, or the internet inventors) personal carbon footprint have to do with anything?

Since there is no opinion in my post addressing your apparent confusion about certain subjects, you won't have to waste any time at all...
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:44   #839
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
So, how many of those first-worlders believe man is changing the world's climate for worse have stopped driving automobiles or using gas and electricity in their homes? I mean, really believe. And what about the citizens in the rest of the world? Sorry, no wood fires for them. Don't they all use solar stoves for heat and cooking and take pales to gather water from the well/creek/river?
I live in a rural (can't walk to the store, etc), cold (7,000 heating degree days/yr) climate. I typically drive my 15 and 20 year-old cars once or twice per week. The one I drive the most gets 40mpg highway.

My last house, which I built, was very well insulated (for its time. Now they are building much better insulated houses -- R-60 ceilings, R-40 walls, triple-pane windows, etc) It was all-electric (heating, hot water, cooking). Yet we only paid less than $100/month for electricity @$0.15/kwh. My current house, which I inherited, is less-well insulated, so electric/heating bills are much higher. But I mostly heat with wood cut from the property.

My wife gardens, and we can/freeze/root-cellar a substantial amount of food each year. Much of our recreation involves hiking or X-C skiing, often locally.

Our largest, avoidable, high-carbon expense each year is flying to see distant relatives. On one occasion my wife purchased carbon credits to off-set a "trip of a lifetime" (and it was a fantastic trip )

That being said, I'm sure my carbon footprint is FAR higher than many liveaboards. And I'm equally sure that if everyone on earth had my carbon footprint we'd still be generating too much carbon dioxide.

I'd love to hope there was a cheap, technological fix to this problem. So far, there doesn't seem to be. I suspect that there will need to be (or forced upon us) a multi-pronged effort -- big-government and big-business technology for carbon reduction/sequestration; voluntary or society-encouraged individual lifestyle changes at carbon reduction; dealing with a less-comfortable and more-dangerous world, due to climate-related changes (e.g. more droughts, more flooding, higher food costs, more infrastructure damage, less-productive fisheries, higher commodity and energy costs, etc).

In my estimation, the best, fastest, easiest-to-implement, most effective governmental policy change that could be made is to enact a yearly-increasing carbon tax, with the revenue generated used to assisted the most needy and vulnerable, and to fund research into possible solutions.
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:43   #840
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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A formula for standard deviation

ok just checking
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